Posted on Nov. 21, 2017, 7:58 p.m. by colton815
let me start by sharing a story with you.
last week i was at FNM (modern format) using my 5C Sliver Company deck. 3rd round pairings get called, i sit down at my assigned table, and start shuffling. my opponent almost immediately starts shouting out to the rest of the table "we got a mirror match guys! we got a mirror match over here!". my buddy a few seats down tells him "i bet you anything i own its not a mirror match". my opponent basically tells him "yeah its a mirror". so my buddy asks him "you're playing slivers?" my opponent laughs at my friend like he thinks my friend is insane. i forget what exactly he said, but it was basically along the lines of "oh no of course not i would never run slivers". the other guys at the table (who have played against my slivers before and knew my buddy wasn't joking) all got a good chuckle at that. at the time, my opponent probably thought they were laughing "with" him, but about partway through the match i think he realized it was more likely they had laughed "at" him, because he was getting really frustrated and turning all sorts of blue and purple. after everyone stops chuckling, he turns to me and says "i saw your Watery Grave, so thats how i know what you're playing". that sort of netdecker mentality absolutely blew my mind. did he really think there was only 1 possible deck capable of using blue and black mana?
as he started shuffling, i noticed his Snapcaster Mage. so in my mind i figured "Watery Grave + Snapcaster Mage + netdecker mentality = most likely grixis Death's Shadow. i turned out to be right. as soon as i played my first sliver, he says "ok just so you know i'm probably gonna have to do a lot of reading". i just responded with "i figured. we tried to tell you it wasn't a mirror match". I ended up winning the match due to Sedge Sliver and his lack of understanding of how the regeneration mechanic works.
now don't get me wrong, i understand that people enter tournaments with the intent to win, and that there were booster packs on the line as prizes (i got 4th with a 3-1 record and won 3 boosters), but i honestly felt bad for the guy. it was like he didnt know anything other than what the last big tournament top 8 decklists told him. if all he does is netdeck he misses out on half the fun of the game, which is deckbuilding.
so what do you guys think of netdecking? what are some reasons you do it or don't do it? and most importantly...what homebrews have you come up with that can totally piss in a Death's Shadow players cereal? lol
This topic has been discussed to death. There are good reasons to support either side of this argument. In the end, however, you've got to recognize that you don't define what's fun for the entire community and part of what makes magic so good is that it brings together tons of people with differing points of view. Just accept that you'll be running into spikes (regardless of how good those players actually are at the game) and you'll have a better time.
November 21, 2017 8:26 p.m.
Honestly I think its fine to netdeck. As long as you know how to pilot the deck.but at the same time, homebrewers have a better knowledge of cards rather than this was the top deck in any format. Any deck could do well, as long as the right person is piloting it.
November 21, 2017 9:02 p.m.
(quick disclaimer, I don't play Modern but this question intrigues me)
A lot of the discussion around this topic, as far as I can see, is miscommunication over why the game is "fun". I see a lot of netdeckers mad at brewers for how superior they act because brewers think that building the deck is the fun part, and tournaments are the testing ground. On the flipside, I see a lot of brewers mad at netdeckers, because netdeckers see building a deck as legwork to get to the fun part, which is playing at the tourneys.
It's easy to point out someone at their worst and assume that's how they always act. OP's story did make the unnamed Spike look bad, but I have heard plenty of stories on the flip side, where a friend I had that plays Shadow gets crap from zealous homebrewers about how his deck is "boring" and he needs to "try building your own deck instead of downloading one online". It's a big game, and there's plenty of room to enjoy the game the way you want to.
Drawing a parallel to my escapades in Commander (the main format I play, but it is fun to dip my toes in Standard or Modern from time to time), I build a lot of budget or junk decks. Budget brewing is now one of my favorite things to do, but I understand that it is a niche, and I've had to train myself not to get salty at people at my LGS playing their tuned Karador, Ghost Chieftain combo deck or the high roller Atraxa, Praetors' Voice Superfriends player that easily has around $1500 invested in their deck between ABUR duals and pieces like Force or Tabernacle.
November 22, 2017 12:45 a.m.
Sadly, I have won a small standard tournament using a slightly modified Temur Energy deck based off the one that won worlds. But I never build completely stock lists, I know my skills and I build to my advantages. The problem is that people don't tune their lists to meet their needs and modern isn't forgiving when your not prepared
November 22, 2017 1:34 a.m.
Being partly spike helped me a lot - I knew what my opp was playing and how to sideboard correctly vs it.
Being a brewer helped too - I had actually tuned my deck very well and despite being a 4-color deck, it worked very well.
Being a netdecker helped too - I saw the best performing Energy and Control lists and took notes on what worked best.
I dislike it when people mention being a spike, netdecking and brewing like they are polar opposites. They are two sides of the same coin.
November 22, 2017 3:09 a.m.
I like to brew, but I like to play netdeckers to see how well my brews play.
My decks normally do quite well.
I do get a bit bored playing against the netdecks, purely because I have tested against them so much that there are no surprises.
The only things that riles me about netdeckers are:
When I ask someone if they built their deck, they tell me they did, and then I find out later on that by "built" they mean that they physically bought the cards to "build" a netdeck.
That they changed two cards in a netdeck, then claim to have built it.
They act like only idiots don't netdeck, like you can't build a deck yourself that can give the netdecks a run for their money.
Apart from that, game on.
November 22, 2017 8:42 a.m.
I am a random person with decks across tiers and formats outside tier1 top8 lists that I refuse to put the $ down for and find uninteresting but not vexing or irritating due to their precision predictability.
I try some pretty new things and some new takes on ancient or established stuff.
My standard set of decks tend toward being meta decks because I buy a box and get 4-6 kid playable decks out of it with a few store-bought singles under $5 each as an absolute limit. Even so I usually have an angle on each deck to adapt it from its top tier formulation.
I have a ton of 75%edh. Some of it is surprising but not all of it.
I buy online cards for edh and modern/legacy etc. but not for standard. To some people I talk to this makes me a netdecker.
I post my decks online. Some people have suggested that this act transforms my own brewed deck into a netdeck.
I actually don't give 2 shits...or more than 20bucks ...
When the Mono zombies player refuses to play your gruul haste pummeler ... or any of your other dirty netdecks ... just sayin ...
November 22, 2017 9:07 a.m.
There's no WAY that putting up your brewed deck on TappedOut automatically makes it a "netdeck".
All that does is kind of advertise your brew.
And serve to let you show that you actually built a deck, before the pros.
November 22, 2017 9:13 a.m.
What really amazes me is the cards people are unfamiliar with. For instance I've been playing a Kiki-Jiki Resto Angel deck lately and so many people have just never seen the combo before.
I mean personally I think the current meta is the worst modern meta ever. It's basically Eldrazi (Tron or Taxes) Deaths Shadow, 5c Humans, 8Rack and Tron. Midrange is flat out dead and people say Storm is running rampant but I barely encounter the deck.
November 22, 2017 10:47 a.m.
I believe both are tools to be used. Netdecks come about as a result of someone's homebrew slowly gaining recognition and being tweaked by the magic community to be as effective as it can be. No netdeck started as a netdeck, someone somewhere homebrewed it first.
Ignoring the countless intelligent minds that have gone into fine tuning these netdecks is dangerous. The decks are popular for a reason and if your goal is to win, there's no shame in assembling a proven deck to use.
That said no two people are the same. We all think and play differently and just because a deck works for someone else doesn't mean you'll know how to pilot it appropriately. Magic is a craft and to perfect your craft you need to learn what the cards do, how they interact, what they're good against and what they struggle against. It also helps to learn the rules, how the stack works, what damage actually does, what are considered state based actions and when do they resolve. Brewing your own decks is a gateway to learning a lot of these things.
Lastly, I would argue that looking a deck up online and modifying it by changing 1 or 2 cards IS building your own deck. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, just figure out how to make it roll for you.
November 22, 2017 11:21 a.m.
I've actually had an interesting time with this. True, netdecks can be annoying at times, but once you figure them out, you have an advantage. For example, my deck Gro-bots *Primer*, which I took to SCG regionals, did quite well despite being the first time the deck had ever actually been assembled (Aside from the two solemnity decks I played, which completely counters my deck).
Once you know what your opponent is playing, a good player, with appropriate knowledge about the format, can literally run circles around the other person in game 1 (and possibly 2).With some of these netdeckers, they know how to play against the meta decks... but kinda flounder against homebrews (someone sideboarded in 2x RIP despite the only gy interaction on my side being 1xAcademy Ruins and 2xScavenging Ooze)
That being said, there is no problem being a netdecker. Some people take pleasure in winning, whereas others vastly prefer building decks.
But yes, @OP, some netdeckers are annoying. As long as you know what the other guy is playing and how to play against it, you are already in a downhill battle.
November 22, 2017 9:39 p.m.
Spikes/netdeckers are not a problem. A small subset of them are, the group i like to call tunnel vision spikes.
The ones that know nothing but the top 8 and say that you are crazy if you touch a card that is not in those list.And go nuts when they are beaten by a deck that is not in "THE META".
A prime example of this behaviour...
November 23, 2017 10:15 a.m.
I am suddenly feeling kind of lucky. I would likely only encounter this specific style of netdecker at a draft event and in draft events there is none of this at all.
It isn't even this flavor of netdecking that keeps me out of fnm events. I am soooo not competitive and allergic to my dci number - the situations this type are found in happen to be situations I don't find myself in. I almost always know my opponent face to face before having a match with them. The serious level of game play these players engage in would have me moving along before I could get mad at them for this netdecking 'tude.
Of course these people likely smugly look down their noses at me here but if I don't know then I don't care.
So irrelevant, much opinion, wow?
November 23, 2017 12:16 p.m.
Not everyone has time to brew, test, and then brew some more. It appears from your story you had an opponent who was new - and started by buying what he thought is the best deck. I net deck, and I would not have made the watery grave assumption, and I would have understood regeneration without knowing every card in the sliver deck.
When I started, I probably would have made a similar mistake - you learn fast that magic isn't about the 'best' deck, but rather a deep understanding of how the game is played, and how to pilot the deck you have. This is why, I believe, so many love the game.
So, relax... have fun... and realize we all have different paths but all are playing the same game.
November 28, 2017 11 a.m.
first off first, anyone calling someone a "netdecker" is a complete asshole and most likely down syndrome
second, if you beat GDS with a shitty slivers deck your opponent probably was absolutly retarded, borderline mental retardation. I hope he quitted playing mtg in shame after that.
December 5, 2017 9:37 a.m.
arcdevil you're kinda proving his point actually. Not all homebrews are shitty, and his deck falls into the not shitty category (reminds me of a 5c humans variant I saw with company in it). If I had to guess, most opponents simply don't know how to play against a tuned deck that plays somewhat like another deck but not quite.
May I ask why the hostility?
December 5, 2017 9:59 a.m.
Idk. if he is a troll or not, it would be likely, were it not for his comments in other threads.
He probably wanted to demonstrate that there are "crazy spikes" XD
December 5, 2017 11:40 a.m.
Slivers is a netdeck too so way to be superior there partner
January 9, 2018 7:21 a.m.
Netdecking refers to taking a winning decklist found online (Gifts storm, deaths shadow, 5C humans) and building that deck straight from someone else's list. Slivers isn't really a tournament seen deck (at least in the Top 8 level)
January 9, 2018 6:20 p.m.
Yes it is it has top 8ed SCGs in the past and has 5-0ed leagues before just because it's tier 3 doesn't mean it isn't a netdeck.