advice from 8 rack players please =)
Modern forum
Posted on Jan. 8, 2019, 10:51 p.m. by Vman
good day! i was wanting to bring something knew to our modern fnm and thought gee, no one here actually knows 8-rack! everyones buisy netdecking popular tier lists ill probably get a ton of what the fu--?? playing this juicy deck..
despite being a veteran modern player im no pro at this archtype tho so i was hoping for advice from you guys =) the decks expected to surely arrive are:
2x hollowed one 1x grixis death shadow 1x eldrazi and taxes 3x arclight phoenix variants 1x uw spirits 1x bant spirits 1x amulet titan 1x naya burn
so i have a few questions specifically.
would the Ensnaring Bridge variant be better here?
if yes, would a playset of bridge be more important than Liliana of the Veil? i could replace lily with Necrogen Mists to keep the deck a bit more budget friendly.
could Duress be good over card:thought seize? theres alot of buning going around.
i have 0 idea how this deck matches vs kci and dredge. any tips incase i see em?
i do intend to run a Smallpox variant in the deck, just coz i like the card =)
thanks for any help guys! any tips are greatly appreciated too!
GeminiSpartanX says... #3
Wow, there's a lot to cover here. Your meta actually sounds quite hostile towards 8-rack, as quick gy decks can be a problem. You absolutely want ensnaring bridge against hollow one and most of the non-burn agro matches. It's the only card that really gives you free wins against some of them. For burn you'll need to have 3x collective brutality in your 75 minimum. If you can get one off you'll generally gain enough time to win depending on your draws. KCI and dredge are bad matchups, and your best bet against them is simply mulling for a Leyline of the Void in your opening hand.
The reason you always pick to draw first when given the choice is because that is one less card your opponent will draw/that you need to get rid of. It hurts them worse that way if they need to mulligan, and winning from that point is generally much easier. That is also why Smallpox goes so well in the deck since they'll often play a creature into it and it helps to catch up on the lost tempo of going 2nd. Burn is sometimes the only exception to this rule, as you need to disrupt their hand fast before they can get too much on the board.
Lily is very important to this deck, and this deck is one that can often ultimate her so I would spring to get a set. The creature removal mode is also very important to gain time, so I wouldn't skimp on her if you want to give this deck a real chance.
Some people run a few creatures in the side. Often a pair of Death's Shadows or Gurmag Angler/Tombstalker for threats or some Asylum Visitors/Bobs for card advantage (pick one or the other strategy normally). I don't see Bloodghasts often since the lack of blocking means they can't buy the time for your racks to put in work. In fact, some people use Pack Rat for a quick threat now that I think about it.
I'm sure I missed a question or 2, but take a look at my list if you'd like. I normally finish top 3 when I play it in FNM, but only because i don't play it every week so people never learn how to play against it. :)
January 9, 2019 12:07 a.m. Edited.
GeminiSpartanX thank you so much! you think ensnaring bridge is great versus pheonix variants too? its becoming quite popular as a flavour of the month deck. if so ill deffinately play a variant with some main!
alright, lilys it is! im very thankfull for such an insightful reply =)
January 9, 2019 12:12 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #5
Bridge is good against their Thing in the Ice Flip plan, but to be honest I haven't played that matchup yet so I'm not certain how well it plays out. They don't have tons of threats so if you find a surgical for their phoenixes, dealing with the remaining TitIs shouldn't be too terrible.
January 9, 2019 12:20 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #6
In that meta mainboard 3-4x Liliana's Caress.
Having a lot of experience with the deck I'd say you need both Bridge & Lilly. Raven's Crime and Funeral Charm should also be included in some number.
I like Vicious Rumors myself but not every one is a fan of the card.
January 9, 2019 1:12 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #7
Also if you're going to keep a creature on the side I think you should go with Nyxathid.
January 9, 2019 1:15 a.m.
The phoenix decks aren't a bad matchup for 8rack. They might get some fast starts, but heavy discard in the first 2 turns cripples them. Prioritize targeted discard against them, so you're not giving them a free opportunity to dump a bird in the grave.
Bridge is good like others have said.
Burn and spirits seem like the toughest match ups of those you listed. Spirits comes down to whether or not you can stick a bridge through spellqueller, but they run Detention Sphere in the side sometimes, so be sure to have some traditional board sweepers too like Bontu's Last Reckoning or Languish to get around Selfless Spirit. Burn is just a straight race. Keep hands with racks/creatures and try to minimize damage with your discard. Smallpox is your best card game 1. If you hurt them on lands, you can pick them apart and they might consider keeping land heavy hands in game 2. Take the play if you can against them.
Being on the draw v play is more nuanced than tom ross makes it out to be. If you have a lot of 1cmc removal, it's not so bad against decks running mana dorks. But if smallpox is your primary removal spell, then an argument could be made for taking the play if odds are higher they will play a creature on turn 1.
Bloodghast also changes this somewhat if you are against slower control decks. Turn 1 taking their removal, then turn2 smallpoxing their white source while discarding bloodghast can out tempo some opponents if you can follow it up. I like playing with bloodghast a lot actually, but it comes with some deck building costs like removing ensnaring bridge and going down on rack effects, BUT it does better at pressuring planeswalkers and getting in damage before your opponent gets hellbent at little to no cost.
January 9, 2019 6:36 p.m.
Ill deffibately remember to use discard on pheonixs spellssnd try to keep bird from the grave :)
I actually like the idea of vicious rumours too. A lil life goes a long way XD
January 10, 2019 7:17 a.m.
Maybe be a bit late on this but. Going over the comments and being the only 8 rack player in my area. i personally think Nether Spirit is a better option , you just get it back , it can block and you can use the land for retrace. Along with that I run Syphon Life for another retrace option.
for Phoenix decks and anything with any graveyard or just good cards in general I main deck Surgical Extraction, it may take a card or 2 out their hand after countering something you have or if you have milled something spicy with Vicious Rumors. If i see anyone use Serum Visions or a card of the like, hit them with a rumor. Ive gotten turn 2 scoops after a rumor then an extraction.
Vman says... #2
follow up question, does nobody run Bloodghast in rack anymore? i have a juicy foil set i like hahaha
and tom ross, some known tack player says to always choose to be on the draw. why? isnt that suicide versus aggro decks?
January 8, 2019 11:11 p.m.