Will Monastery Swiftspear ever be any sort of substitute for Goblin Guide?
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Feb. 28, 2016, 3:41 a.m. by Bovine073
I've been looking at my Hidetsugu's Second Rite deck for a while, and seeing that unfortunately, it just isn't good enough in some respects. If I wanted to make this a full-fleged burn deck (but still slightly budget by not running Arid Mesa/guide), could I use Monastery Swiftspear as a replacement? I don't see many downsides, but I think most of the time it will be nothing but a poor replacement (like 1-3 less damage).
Do keep in mind, the downside to guide isn't really a downside at all 75% of the time.
Thoughts? Thanks for reading.
Monastery Swiftspear isn't a "poor replacement" to Goblin Guide. I'd say she's very, very close to GG'S power level - sure, a T1 Swifty will do 1 less damage, but from T2 onwards she'll be a 2/3 most of the time, and a 3/4 more often than not. You can do really powerful things with her and Atarka's Command.
As a burn player, you should always play 4 Goblin Guides AND 4 Monastery Swiftspears. If you want a replacement for GG, play Vexing Devil or something, but leave the Swiftspears there. There's a reason all the pros play them as a 4-of.
February 28, 2016 9:12 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #4
Yeah there really is no replacement for GG. Swiftspear gets nuts with Atarka's Command. She's kinda like GG #5-8.
February 28, 2016 9:12 a.m.
Ah, I was under the understanding that most pro decks did not run her.
What about Vexing Devil, though? It has all the same drawbacks as guide and swiftspear (being bad topdeck mid-game), but also seems to be more consistent, especially T1 or T2. What do you guys think? I see it as on an equal line with swiftspear or Lava Spike.
February 28, 2016 11:25 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #6
I used to run Vexing Devil before Swiftspear came out. Devil is nice the first few turns, after that not so much. Devil is indeed a poor top deck late game.
February 28, 2016 11:50 a.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #7
Personally I think SS is better than GG
February 28, 2016 12:19 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #8
Also thanks for teaching me that Hidetsugu's Second Rite is a card. Time to brew a janky Rakdos deck with it and Sorin Markov
February 28, 2016 12:21 p.m.
The thing about Vexing Devil is that Burn can't afford to waste any plays, especially if the burn player is on the play.
A turn 1 Goblin Guide on the play will be 2 damage at worst, so at the very least least got 2 damage out of 1 card.
A turn 1 Swifty will be 1 damage, which is a worse worst-case scenario than GG, but still something (and if she doesn't get killed, boy does she shine from T2 onwards).
A turn 1 Vexing Devil... well... if the opponent has no way to deal with it and chooses to take the 4 damage, it's the best T1 play burn could possibly dream of. But we're talking about Modern, a format where 1-mana removal and cheap blockers are commonplace, so there's a big chance your VD will eat a Lightning Bolt or a Path to Exile, or simply get chump blocked until the opponent manages to find something to kill it with. And if that happens, you literally wasted a card - something Burn can afford less than any other deck, because it has an atrocious lategame.
So, is Vexing Devil a good card in Burn? of course it is. The payoff could be huge. But it doesn't have something Monastery Swiftspear and Goblin Guide both have: consistency. Which is why it doesn't get played over the two. (yet Wild Nacatl, which is basically a weaker VD that doesn't even have the "1-mana Boros Charm to face" mode, sees play everywhere. Go figure)
tl;dr haste is more important in burn than being a huge-ass 1-drop, which is why people don't play Vexing Devil. But if you can't afford Goblin Guides, VD and Swiftspear are the best 1-drops you can get. Play 4 of each.
February 28, 2016 3:41 p.m.
alanwescoat says... #10
You might be able to get even more out of Monastery Swiftspear by running Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose maindeck, though Gitaxian Probe lowers your chances of survival in a mirror match. Depending on what creatures you run, Expedite might be something to consider as well. Whatever the case, running 4x Monastery Swiftspear is just a given.
Pretty much for Modern and Legacy Burn, the creature package is as follows:
4x Goblin Guide
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Monastery Swiftspear
2x Grim Lavamancer
Different decksmiths will tweak differently, possibly omitting Monastery Swiftspear for Legacy or upping the Grim Lavamancer count to 3x, but those are basically the creatures for both formats. Once you have them , you are set. It seems fairly unlikely that better creatures than those are going to see print. While you could run Vexing Devil, I would not drop money on them. If you have them, run them while you are saving up for Goblin Guide or finding a way to trade for them. You can run Raging Goblin, Legion Loyalist, or Skitter of Lizards in the meantime. Those cards are poor in this deck but serviceable.
Also, once you have the solid shell of Modern Burn, you are not far from Legacy Burn. All you need is Chain Lightning (expensive but much cheaper than Goblin Guide), Price of Progress (not terribly expensive), Fireblast (cheap), Sulfuric Vortex (cheap), Pyrostatic Pillar (cheap), and Exquisite Firecraft (pretty reasonable right now and easily obtained). At current prices, it comes to less than $100 to be able to convert the Modern deck for Legacy.
I am sorry that the marketplace has led to Goblin Guide getting jacked up to such a stupidly high price. I am thankful to have my set, which I paid $20 each for when they were in Standard (and I felt weird dropping that much money on rectangles of cardboard).
Anyway, Burn is fun in both formats, and the Legacy version is just nuts without coming even close to the $1000 mark. Both versions are quite stable and effective. Modern Burn is not quite as competitive as it was because of Eldrazi, but it still works. The upshot is that, unlike Eldrazi, nothing in Burn is liable to get banned. The trick with Burn is that if it becomes too bothersome, it is easily hated out of the meta with proper sideboarding.
Also, keep in mind that since all of your lands will be mountains even if you are using shocklands, any fetchland that can fetch a Mountain will work. Thus, Wooded Foothills and Bloodstained Mire work exactly as well as Scalding Tarn and Arid Mesa. Instead of getting ripped off for staples which have been out of print for far too long, you can work with available fetchlands which are readily available and likely to take maybe a 10% dip for a short time over the next couple of months or so.
Again, I feel bad for people getting into Modern. I bought my Zendikar fetchlands for about $10 each when they were still Standard and before Modern had been invented. Even as it stands, I am not happy about the $16 I had to shell out this week for the last Flooded Strand I needed to complete my playsets of all of the fetches, but at least I now have them all.
Gidgetimer says... #2
Being as burn runs both at 4-of I don't see how one can be a budget replacement for the other.
February 28, 2016 7:04 a.m.