Soo... How are you supposed to beat the colorless eldrazi deck?
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Feb. 8, 2016, 6:51 a.m. by EpicFreddi
The pro tour showed us that a 5/5 haste trample with upside on turn 2 is a good play. But how can you even beat that? Goyfs are too small, burn is too slow and control is not a thing. So what can you really do? (And I don't want to hear "play infect of affinity")
Play aggro and pray they don't get a Chalice of the Void.
There is seriously no way to beat the Eldrazi mimic rush or the T2 haste 5/5.
Options we've discussed are: Blood Moon, land destruction, wraths, Ensnaring Bridge. All of which are too slow without ramp.
February 8, 2016 7:21 a.m.
ninjaclevs13 says... #4
I think a good sideboard card that some are forgetting about is Aligned Hedron Network
February 8, 2016 7:32 a.m.
Let me reiterate: a turn 2 5/5 with haste, or the possibility to swing for 8+ on turn 3.
February 8, 2016 7:35 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #6
So is this breaking Modern? Are we therefore going to see a ban in the near future?
February 8, 2016 8:06 a.m.
The main things that have helped me are mainboarding ghost quarter. A t1 ghost quarter destroying their eye kills any chance of a turn 2 5/5 with haste. Allso,part of the problem with smasher is that it is hard totarger, but if you hold a lingering souls in hand, you can just discard that when you path it and cast you souls t2
February 8, 2016 8:08 a.m.
February 8, 2016 8:23 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #9
Other cards to consider as options: Painter's Servant makes their lands not eldrazi lands. (And if you have something like Kor Firewalker then he has protection from their deck)
Then there's Vampire Hexmage, it kills Endless One, can kill unpumped mimics, and can set chalice to 0.
February 8, 2016 8:24 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #10
I haven't been following Modern much, but it seems like Blue Moon would be a decent matchup. Not sure that it does well against the rest of the meta though.
February 8, 2016 8:44 a.m.
I've had a lot of success with my current brew beating the eldrazi decks. Thankfully everyone is playing them on untap and cockatrice so it's been easy to play about 5 matches today. Around 8 games in total. I haven't been recording exact statistics but my overall feeling is "this is pretty fine", something like 50-50 pre-board and 65-35 post board. Here are some thoughts from a janky player:
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim has worked really well for me. She has 3 toughness and deathtouch meaning that she completely halts unpumped Eldrazi Mimic and can deal with larger creatures in times of dire need. She's one of those rare cards that you love early game and is still a fair 1-for-1 late game.
Phyrexian Obliterator can grind the game to a halt. If you pass the early game and reach late stages they tend to have 3-4 land and just 1 or 2 threats. They can't swing into you safely. This is especially true the larger threat they have. If you still have a few puny creatures enjoy the free 5 damage a turn and just keep up some chump blockers. Bonus points if the chump blocker has deathtouch.
Vampire Nighthawk comes in from my sideboard. Same as Ayli. Comfortable blocking 2/2s, can threaten 20/20s. Fine in the mid game. Fine in the late game. And evasive.
Gatekeeper of Malakir is fine but not the best. I mean you get a chump blocker that also kills a mimic at worst. Bonus points though if you topdeck one and they only have a Reality Smasher on the board. He's at worst average, and at best super, super value. Also he's stupid against Grixis midrange decks that only play Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
Wasteland Strangler is not as good as Gatekeeper of Malakir because what it can kill becomes more limited as the game goes on, but curving a Tidehollow Sculler that's exiling some huge threat into a Wasteland Strangler and killing a mimic or Matter Reshaper is great. You can then use the Tidehollow Sculler as a chump blocker because it's no longer exiling a card and you have another chump/mediocre blocker with 3 power that has already accrued you value.
Skinrender turns 6/6s into 3/3s then kills them. If that occurs you traded 4 mana to kill a 6 mana threat which is a tempo win. More often though it'll turn 4/4s into 1/1s or 5/5s into 2/2s which makes them seem.... cute.
I sideboard out Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Path to Exile. Too many times have they just go a T1 chalice and ruined all of those cards. Note that that's like 1/6 of my deck that becomes dead draws. I can't risk it. I would LOVE to land Thoughtseize but the risk of it being autocountered out-weighs the benefits when you run deathtouchers.
I can beat a T1 Eldrazi Mimic into a T2 threat with 3 or 4 power. That works because I usually have some kind of deathtouch blocker coming up T2 or T3 that I can stabilise with. I cannot beat multiple T1 mimics. I don't know how you can possibly beat multiple T1 Eldrazi Mimic into something with 3 or 4 power on T2.
February 8, 2016 8:51 a.m.
Player3.14 says... #12
Ghostly Prison seems great in the matchup. They'll still be able to dump a lot of creatures on the board quickly, but only attack very inefficiently. It gives you more time to set up. It also makes Eldrazi Mimic alot more pointless.
If your deck is set up to run them, unconditional boardwipes like Damnation, Supreme Verdict, and Wrath of God also seem good.
Having bigger creatures than them is very difficult for them to deal with. Of course, the challenge is getting out such a creature quickly, but it can be done in the form of Tarmogoyf or Knight of the Reliquary.
Apparently brining in Ancient Grudge is good too; it blows up chalice, spellskite, and ratchet bomb.
Lots of redundant large-creature removal, like Path to Exile, Dismember, Maelstrom pulse, Bant Charm, etc. are also good.
That's what I've come up with. I've had some success with a few of these options; others I haven't tried.
February 8, 2016 9:12 a.m.
Path to Exile doesn't work. Can confirm
Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary haven't worked for me. Endless One is larger.
Board wipes sound pretty good but a tad slow.
Ghostly Prison is really, really good up until the point at which they're swinging with an 8/8 then it falls off haha.
I've had most luck with random deathtouch stuff with 3 toughness.
February 8, 2016 9:20 a.m.
Dismember Thoughtseize on the play lol Vampire Hexmage is going to work really well. Maybe a deathtouch dude. Right now it looks like Dismember is the best card against the deck.
February 8, 2016 9:36 a.m.
But Big Game Hunter is awfully slow, and targets so he doesn't get around smashers ability. I heard about him being recommended and just laughed. It's a super poor way top use your mana and he doesn't threaten anything else in the deck, which means he's a dead card in hand for a lot of the game.
February 8, 2016 9:40 a.m.
ChiefBell Exactly. You need to find credible threats that work with at least half the meta and not just one specific card. Personally, I will play 1 Dismember main, and 2-3 side as it kills Eldrazi, Rhino, Tasigur, etc. I'm thinking of trying 1 Hissing Quagmire in Jund.
February 8, 2016 9:42 a.m. Edited.
Yeah you need to be prepared to beat their entire deck, not a few cards within the deck.
This is specifically why I'm on the "3 toughness dudes with deathtouch" plan because its a solid wall against their early game and threatens their later plays.
It's my opinion that whilst Ghostly Prison and Blood Moon and board wipes are all fantastic cards they only threaten the latter half of the deck, and fail to do much against the aggressive portion which can threaten lethal on T3 without a whole lot of effort.
February 8, 2016 9:49 a.m.
ninjaclevs13 says... #19
Don't forget about Heir of the Wilds, although it pretty much is a worse Ayli
February 8, 2016 9:58 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #20
ChiefBell Big Game Hunter does get around Reality Smasher's trigger....
It's only SPELLS that target. BGH is a triggered ability.
Jusssssst like Emrakul. O-Ring, Journey to Nowhere, Shriekmaw, etc.
All of these things kill smasher without the discard.
February 8, 2016 10:13 a.m. Edited.
Oh shit. I thought it was "spell or ability". Wow that's way better for me because Shriekmaw
February 8, 2016 10:18 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #22
That's why I suggested it like 3 days ago when you were asking for suggestions......
As long as it doesn't target in the form of a spell, like Pacifism, then it's fine.
(reanimating a Pacifism is fine though.)
February 8, 2016 10:28 a.m. Edited.
There were some other than eldrazi that had good success against Eldrazi, but none of them made it to top 8. I think Lantern Control is the best, but it's not as strong against affinity and burn probably.Here's a link to the decks
February 8, 2016 11:20 a.m.
Reid Duke nearly made Top 8 with Jund using 2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and a couple Mardu decks looked solid.
February 8, 2016 11:58 a.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #25
ducttapedeckbox - A blue moon build just put up a decent PT showing (just missed top 8). And it was pretty good against the colorless Eldrazi deck in the match I watched. The main threats were 2X Batterskull and 3X Pia and Kiran Nalaar, which the Eldrazi decks seemed to struggle with. I'm not sure if that list was packing Roast, but that seems like the right idea. You also get counterspells and artifact hate, both useful in the matchup. As far as Blue Moon handling the rest of the field, aggro would seem to be the problem matchup, but Bolts and Anger of the Gods probably put you in an okay position, and B-skull is obviously a great come-from-behind card.
February 8, 2016 1:43 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #26
Do you have a list I can look at, Wizard_of_the_Broke?
February 8, 2016 3:04 p.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #28
Thanks, DrFunk27.
Looking at the exact list, I'm surprised it was nearly top 8 - it's clearly not tuned to face a bunch of 4/4s and 5/5s. But that's why I think it has potential - it did well despite being unprepared. The question is how to tune up a URx package with the right removal - Roast could be really strong. Targeted land destruction seems do-able. One of the big questions is how to play around Chalice of the Void - maybe split between 1-and-2 drop removal?
I think I'll also look at Lightning Axe, Skred, Spite of Mogis, Processor Assault, Spitting Earth (cool with Moon - but janky), Mizzium Mortars, Crushing Pain - and others.
February 8, 2016 3:56 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #30
I'm glad to see that Batterskull might be coming back. That list does look odd to place so well in this tournament, but I'm glad to see that my dream deck still has a chance.
February 8, 2016 9:19 p.m.
LordGanondorf says... #31
Threads of Disloyalty is a good card to have in the mainboard of the blue moon deck. Its able to target a massive Endless One (because X=0). It can also capture a mimic/spellskite. It's also good against other decks other than the eldrazi (Tarmogoyf and etc).
February 8, 2016 11:57 p.m.
If you are on the play, Ensnaring Bridge should be good... on the Draw, it may be a turn too slow, but they would have to have their best hand. - This is assuming you can empty your hand to a small enough size.
Dismember is good. Try to hit their Reality Smasher when it enters, in response to their Eldrazi Mimic triggers... if he chooses to change the P/T, they die.
T1 Ghost Quarter + Surgical Extraction can nearly stop them cold.
Hand Disruption works well.
In general, with all of these options in mind, I think 8-Rack may have a good matchup against the decks.
February 9, 2016 8:44 a.m.
I'm trying to figure out if I should do anything with my Infect Deck SB to combat the Eldrazi. I don't think it's a bad matchup, but I was actually thinking Surgical Extraction + Ghost Quarter but don't know if Infect mana base can afford the quarter. Spell Snare is also a good mimic, 2 cost endless one, and chalice for 1 counter... counter. I might just MB an extraction and snare since they are useful in any matchup for the most part.
February 9, 2016 9:15 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #34
I've actually given some thought to Mana Leak, which I normally don't like in Merfolk. Here though? It actually stays relevant longer in that matchup. Eye of Ugin does not actually produce mana, and the deck is pretty aggressive with its mana anyway.
Also, I put in two Sea's Claim. Fun times.
February 14, 2016 2:07 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #35
Well I found a card. Mistmeadow Skulk.Only ratched bomb and mimic can deal with him. at least mainboard.
JexInfinite says... #2
Thought-Knot Seer makes it quite difficult to beat. However, assuming they don't have it, counterspells work extraordinarily well (specifically Mana Leak, since Eye of Ugin cannot pay for it). Wrath effects are pretty good.
Or just play affinity and pray they don't get a chalice.
February 8, 2016 6:54 a.m.