Silver Bullets
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Dec. 20, 2018, 8:45 a.m. by Xica
During the last few days i built the following deck:
Eldritch StompoSaurus
Modern
SCORE: 1 | 41 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS
It works as well as one would expect, as the combination of aggressive stompy, and free wins due to combo on turn 2/3 are very strong (not to mention that the combo aspect gives a lot of late game inevitability.
However sadly came to realize that my finishers do little to nothing against control, or tron - as both decks can function if denied 1 of their colors by Iona, Shield of Emeria, and don't necessarily care for Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite all that much.
That basically makes my "i win on turn 3 via eldritch evolutiuon" hands into "do nothing" hands.
To put it simply i am looking for creature cards that cost 9 mana or less, that can't be dealt by control or tron (preferrably in selesnya colors, but that is not necessary)
So far i only have ideas against control:
- Fleecemane Lion
- Thrun, the Last Troll
P.s.: The omission of Sigarda, Host of Herons is intentional, since it is very redundant, as Iona, Shield of Emeria easily accomplishes the same thing against GBx - since abzan is close to nonexistent.
APPLE01DOJ
Despite the fact that i have access to white mana, i have plenty of good reason, to not run a single (let alone multiple) copies of Stony Silence in my sideboard. IT ISNT A CREATURE CARD. Hence it dilutes my gameplan.
Thanks to Eldritch Evolution singleton silver bullet creatures act as if there were 5 copies of them, and as if they were to cost 2 less mana.
(obvious all the non-creature answers have the same problem Stony Silence has - in this deck)
Not only that, but they are only good for slowing down the opponent, tutoring out a Gaddock Teeg against tron is not bad per say, but its certainly not as game winning, as naming red with Iona, Shield of Emeria against burn, or naming black against jund, or playing Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite against dredge or elves.
Carnage Tyrant does nothing i need it to do. I need something that can't be targeted AND destroyed.
Of course Nezahal, Primal Tide like self exile ability, with hexproof would be the best.
As of now Tidespout Tyrant seems like the strongest 1 of against tron, as it can deny its mana completely if it comes down early - and tron lacks removal for it.
Funkydiscogod
Thanks for the sugggestion, i will give it a try!
December 20, 2018 12:33 p.m.
Flooremoji says... #4
Maybe a creature that can blink itself for control? And maybe Zacama, Primal Calamity?
December 20, 2018 12:38 p.m.
I agree with APPLE01DOJ - as someone who plays a combo deck in Legacy (reanimator), you have to get used to diluting your gameplan post-board for hate pieces. You have to change your definition of "going off" (or insta-winning) depending on the deck, because some decks are so weak to hate that you insta-win with a single card + pressure.
You can win easily against Tron (and also KCI to a degree) with something like a t3 Steel Leaf Champion, if turn 2 you played Stony Silence - you don't need Iona at all, and you would probably want to take out your top end to board Stony Silence in, because you no longer need the combo finish.
Against Jeskai/UW control, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and the Voices are probably your best bet - you could add in a Choke as a good hate card, too.
You can think of this another way, too - "diluting" your gameplan post-sideboard means you're adding different threats your opponent has to deal with. Right now, they only need to deal with stompy aggressive dudes, a big fatty, or a sorcery. Post-side, they'll need to deal with an enchantment before they can even start to attack your actual wincons. It takes more cards for them to deal with your actual threats, since few cards deal with both enchantments AND creatures (and that's why enchantments make for such good hate cards).
December 20, 2018 1:47 p.m. Edited.
abby315
I get what you are talking about, BUT:
-both tron and UWx control have stuff that can interact with any type of permanent quiet easily (Oblivion Stone, Karn Liberated, Detention Sphere...etc.)
- I have to dedicate an enormous amount of sideboard space to achieve the same level of consistency as i could have with just 1 creature.
I am not completely unwilling to play said hate cards, but i feel that the deck would benefit a LOT from having at least one heavy hitter thats useful in these matchups.
December 20, 2018 1:57 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #7
I can appreciate wanting SB cards that work with the mechanics of the deck but some times that forces you to run inferior options. I also have to mention that creature cards are by far the weakest form of hate. For instance U/W can deal with a creature threat with pretty much any card in their deck. They can only answer a Choke with a Cryptic Command or Detention Sphere.
December 20, 2018 4:19 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ is completely right. Even if your deck has a strong creature focus and strategy, creature hate is almost universally worse than anything else. If im being destroyed by artifacts enough that I want hate, i dont mind the downside of running Stony Silence as a non-creature card if it means I can play an answer cheaply and efficiently, especially in a format as fast as modern.
December 20, 2018 4:55 p.m.
RedmundR2 & APPLE01DOJ
I don't have issue fighting artifact decks.
Knight of Autumn, Reclamation Sage, Glissa Sunseeker (for recursive targeted removal), Cataclysmic Gearhulk (for boardwipe - effectively 3 mana) is plenty to fight artifacts, not to mention some additional stuff that can come in like Gaddock Teeg & Acidic Slime in specific circumstances.
What i have trouble is beating t3 pop Oblivion Stone, into t4 Karn Liberated, into t5 Karn Liberated - yeah the second karn got me :P - the thing is that against the WAST MAJORITY of deck if they don't interact with my combo they are DEAD.
As they have literal nothing that could save them.
Same about UWx control.
I am not "so to speak" dead in the matchup - i just miss a way to win via the combo.
And i still not see why its a wise idea to completely ditch my well functioning sideboard, to improve on a ~50/50% and a ~45-55% matchup.
Yes, i could have 4x Stony Silence & 4x Choke in the sideboard to combat tron and UWx control, however that obviously eats up sidebaord space pretty fast.
December 20, 2018 5:18 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ
"I also have to mention that creature cards are by far the weakest form of hate."
Well we have to agree to disagree on this point.
Creature cards often have by far the strongest "hate" effects in game. Often game endingly strong, that can only be printed due to the fact that they are vulnerable to removal.
Think Iona, Shield of Emeria, Platinum Angel (once it gets shroud), Ruric Thar, the Unbowed (lets see how storm beats it if it comes down on turn 3), Thrun, the Last Troll, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Selfless Spirit, Meddling Mage (if present in multiples, or cloned via stuff like Phantasmal Image)
I highly doubt we will ever see the following card:
As an enchantment this card would be BUSTED.
December 20, 2018 5:55 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #11
when i say "weakest" what I mean is "most vulnerable to removal" not weak as in a measurement of strength of the effect.
December 20, 2018 6:15 p.m.
I was just using artifact hate as an example. In general creature removal is the most common type of removal in the format, so it generally means your hate is more vulnerable like apple is saying
December 21, 2018 8:36 a.m.
RedmundR2
"I was just using artifact hate as an example. In general creature removal is the most common type of removal in the format,"
Any sane person has to agree with that...
"so it generally means your hate is more vulnerable like apple is saying"
But not with the conclusion.
As of now the wast majority of removal played in the format is very conditional.
Beside Path to Exile & Assassin's Trophy, there are close to no cards that can hit any creature. In the context of my deck, cards like Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, Abrade, Dismember, even Lightning Axe accomplish very little - against my finisher creatures. Stuff like the "non-legendary" clause on Cast Down is very relevant!
The counter hate, that comes in game 2 and 3 against artifacts and enchantments is MUCH less conditional. Just take a look at Ancient Grudge, or Nature's Claim
How many removal spells are played... Show
UWx control (due to Cryptic Command) & tron (colorless obviously) being the main exceptions.
December 21, 2018 11:46 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #14
I'm not sure if you're arguing just to try to be right at this point?
I'm going to use your own evidence for argument against you.
Of the 20 cards you listed as most commonly played forms of removal (why is Hive Mind here?) 19 hit creatures, where only 7 hit enchantments and 8 artifacts.
Do you see what I mean?
No one is arguing that Iona, Shield of Emeria isn't a game winning card. Removal may not be as effective against your fattie but it doesn't matter if you can never get to the actual point of cheating your creature into play. Which is the bulk of the game play. Some thing like Choke or Stony Silence is going to slow down the decks you have trouble with enough to get to your "I Win" card.
December 21, 2018 4:07 p.m.
Yeah, I mean, if you happen to cheat out anything big thats really difficult to remove like Progenitus or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn it's going to be strong. Kind of parroting what Apple is saying again, but it doesn't necessarily mean that vulnerable creature hate against the artifacts or whatever it is that shuts you down is better than non-creature hate.
APPLE01DOJ says... #2
Against control Carnage Tyrant is legit. It's not a silver bullet because they run both Settle the Wreckage and Terminus to answer it. And for that same reason you're not going to find an unstoppable answer. Id say 1-2 Tyrant in the main, 2-3 Treetop Village/Stirring Wildwood also in the main with 1-2 Choke and 1-2 Sorcerous Spyglass/Pithing Needle in the side. Will improve your Control match up. Your mana base probably can't afford them but a couple Field of Ruin/Ghost Quarter will also help against both Control & Tron.
As it is your sideboard is really weak. I would revise the whole thing. Especially since you're in white. There is no reason at all you shouldn't be running stuff like Stony Silence.
Against Tron. Basically land hate and exile effects with a quick clock.
So a full Path to Exile play set in the main. Soul Tithe, Oblivion Ring, Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, Stony Silence, Damping Sphere, Aven Mindcensor, Gaddock Teeg (which u have). If you want something that works with your deck I would use Wurmcoil Engine. It dodges Ugin & All Is Dust and if they crack an O-Stone will leave bodies behind.
December 20, 2018 11:44 a.m.