Nerdy Magic Math Stuff
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Dec. 30, 2016, 3:43 p.m. by KaiserMTG
So for my deck:
Saint Peter
Modern
SCORE: 92 | 104 COMMENTS | 9902 VIEWS | IN 29 FOLDERS
I would really like to run 2 Collective Brutality as it has beautiful synergy with Bloodghast and is just a better mid/late game card than IoK/TS. However, I don't want too many discard spells in my deck so I would cut an IoK for another brutality. What I'm concerned with is the math. At 6 IoK/TS, every 2.1 games out of 3 I would have one in my opening hand. At 5, every 1.8 games out of 3. It's pretty critical that at least 2 of 3 games I see one in my opening hand. Is it worth it?
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #3
Collective Brutality is just bad in modern, it kills some creatures you see (not goyph, rhino, affinity/Tron fatties, spellskite, stompy fatties, Eldrazi, kitchen finks) mid to late game but not too much, it is horrible discard (more than 50% of the problem cards are not instants or sorceries), and the drain is next to irrelevant on it's own, the utility is there but being a 2 mana sorcery REALLY hurts it. Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek are necessary to attack problem cards, I'd use a minimum of 6.
Also, what synergy with Bloodghast? That it makes the opponent loose life? That it can make you discard it to recurr layer? Not really beautiful synergy as much as it's unreliable.
December 30, 2016 4:07 p.m.
You're actually just wrong about brutality, it's quite good in modern. Just think about versus infect and burn, 2 of the most played decks in the format. It's fantastic with Bloodghast because it let's you 2-3 for one your opponent and establish board presence in the process
December 30, 2016 4:12 p.m. Edited.
I'm just gonna cut Liliana, the Last Hope to solve this issue. Too many 3 drops in the deck with her there anyway
December 30, 2016 4:18 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #6
Seems fine against burn, infect will often recover from you casting it, I just really can't see bad tragic slip + thoughtseize + bad lighting helix really helping enough to be worth spot in your main deck. It really doesn't seem good enough at any of these.
December 30, 2016 4:22 p.m.
I see where you're coming from, and that's the view most people had about it in modern at first, but now even most Jund decks run 1. The power is in the diversity of the spell. Each mode is exceptionally average, there's no denying that, but even with having a crappy toolbox you'll often have the right tool to get the job done. If you can create value off of its drawback like tossing Bloodghasts in the grave, creating mana for Tasigur, the Golden Fang or getting delirium for Grim Flayer, then it becomes quite a good card.
December 30, 2016 4:33 p.m. Edited.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #8
I guess so? It just seems like a multi tool made out of cellophane, it can technically do a lot, but not really do any of it well enough to be worth the investment. More power to you if it works though.
December 30, 2016 4:37 p.m.
Collective brutality is fantastic in modern. Its not enough to play 3-4 but 1-2 is good. Its better late game then most discard effects so havjng variety is good.
December 30, 2016 5:50 p.m.
TheAcidicSniperLIVE says... #10
I would highly recommend replacing Overgrown Tomb with Jungle Hollow, just a little side note. As for Collective Brutality, I would definitely say it's worth it just to boost your odds of having it in your opening hand, especially with how sweetly the Bloodghast combo fits with the rest of the deck. This is a pretty nice Modern build.
December 30, 2016 10:57 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #11
So not saying, just saying, Joe Lossett (ya know, the SCG Player's champion) jammed four of it in tron (in the slot where other "better" removal is usually played, Paths, Bolts, etc) and took down the tournament with it. Sure, it was a multi format tourney, but still the card did work.
Collective Brutality is probably the best black card to have been printed in the last year for modern. It is the best card to have against burn period, it has uses in literal every matchup, it's never a dead card, it turns your dead cards into not dead cards, it enables graveyard strategies... There is no downside to playing collective brutality, and in my opinion anyone worth their salt in modern that says it is bad doesn't know what they're talking about.
In regards to the OP, I don't think that you should exceed 7 of that effect. I'd say trim a thoughtseize from what you have in the list that I just looked at going to 2 TS, 2 CB, 3 IoK. Inquisition is obviously the best of the three, but the others have practical uses as well and shouldn't be dismissed. But having 8 potential just-discard effects seems like a bit of a stretch in most matchups. If you want the capacity to go up to 8 against control or whatever, i'd say sideboard the 3rd thoughtseize.
December 30, 2016 11:36 p.m.
TheAcidicSniperLIVE I can't tell if you're trolling with that first remark or not lol. If not, care to explain? DevoidMage, I agree with you on pretty much everything. The original issue was that I didn't want too many discard spells in the deck which resulted in bad mid-late game draws, but also wanted to run Brutality and have IoK/TS in my opening hand. After looking at the probabilities and doing a ton of playtesting today I think it's right where it needs to be. Between Grim Flayer, Liliana of the Veil, Collective Brutality, Phyrexian Arena and even Tasigur, the Golden Fang at times, I have enough card filtering and card advantage to play around any unwanted extras. Those spells are so critical early game that I wouldn't want to drop my odds from having one or more in my opening hand from 54% at 6, to about 47% at 5.
December 31, 2016 2:48 a.m.
TheAcidicSniperLIVE says... #13
Junglw Hollow causes you to gain life, where as Overgrown Tomb causes you to lose life.
December 31, 2016 3:28 p.m.
TheAcidicSniperLIVE, So Overgrown Tomb is much more powerful because it can be searched out with Verdant Catacombs and gives you the option of coming in tapped or untapped for 2 life. Jungle Hollow cannot be searched out and must come in play tapped. In a format like modern, life is less relevant than being able to play your spells on time. Thanks for the suggestion tho
Wurmlover says... #2
more often than not, yes. take for instance you're facing soul sisters, you could kill the serra ascendant that will inevitably be the turn 1 or 2 play, and drain them for 2.
December 30, 2016 3:51 p.m.