Mono Green Sideboard: 3/1-2/2 Split?

Modern Deck Help forum

Posted on Feb. 22, 2019, 7:13 p.m. by Flooremoji

I have been thinking... what is the best split for the current modern format between Witchbane Orb and Thrun, the Last Troll ?


Mono Green Prison *PRIMER*

Modern Flooremoji

SCORE: 5 | 6 COMMENTS | 362 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS


Thanks Comunity!

PlatinumOne says... #2

i wouldn't use any Witchbane Orb at all. turn 4 is way too late to stop the decks that actually aim to target players with their spells. what are you hoping to stop with it?

February 22, 2019 7:33 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #3

PlatinumOne: I can Ramp into it. It is the only 4 or less artifact that grants hexproof. Mainly just any deck that targets me with burn spells.

February 22, 2019 7:36 p.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #4

I wouldn't run Witchbane Orb . 1-2 Thrun is always good.

February 22, 2019 8:15 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #5

APPLE01DOJ Why wouldn't you run Orb? In the deck above, that is literally the best burn protection in the modern format.

February 22, 2019 8:17 p.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #6

Just run Life Goes On or Feed the Clan or something a long those lines.

February 22, 2019 8:18 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #7

APPLE01DOJ: You can't find those with Ancient Stirrings .

February 22, 2019 8:19 p.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #8

In the deck above It's only good if you can ramp into it with the same mana dorks you won't be able to play after landing a chalice on 1.

Honestly it's not needed. If burn is really a problem, life gain is best, you could even run Dragon's Claw or Amulet of Safekeeping .

Burn typically expects white leyline game 2 anyway and sides in Destructive Revelry .

February 22, 2019 8:26 p.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #9

Who cares if you can't find it with stirrings. You got to look at cards on their own, not just synergy.

February 22, 2019 8:27 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #10

APPLE01DOJ let's phrase it this way, 3/1-2/2 control or burn hate.

February 22, 2019 8:30 p.m.

APPLE01DOJ says... #11

Like that I'd go 3/1 3 Control hate 1 Burn hate.

1x Thrun and 2 other cards, perhaps Sorcerous Spyglass .

I'd actually suggest Raking Canopy in your side as well. It can really hold Spirits at bay.

February 22, 2019 8:46 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #12

Raking Canopy ? Hmm, that's interesting.

February 22, 2019 8:47 p.m.

PlatinumOne says... #13

Witchbane Orb is certainly not the best protection from burn you have access to. i also find it odd you're worried about finding things with Ancient Stirrings considering your deck only has 9 nonland cards that it can find. the deck shouldn't be using Ancient Stirrings at all.

February 22, 2019 8:48 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #14

PlatinumOne: I find that digging 5 for a Bridge, Chalice, land, or Balista is really worth it, and the only reason to play G over R. I guess you could test a version without stirrings, but it really helps the consistency. WBO may not be the 'best' I have access to if a was building any Green deck, I wouldn't play it. But Stirrings gives me a better chance of finding it, I think it's definitely worth it.

February 22, 2019 8:54 p.m.

PlatinumOne says... #15

neither Witchbane Orb or Ancient Stirrings should be used in that deck. if you want 1 of the 5 cards you see with stirrings to be a colorless spell, 1/5 of your deck needs to be colorless spells. thats a minimum of 12. you only have 9. that means your stirrings will usually only reveal a land you can possibly put in your hand. and that 12 is just the minimum to see "one" spell of out the 5. stirrings is best when it gives you multiple colorless spells to choose from, which will almost never happen in your build. you're more likely to see a colorless spell you already have and don't need.

the witchbane orb just comes down far too late to matter, even with your mana ramp.

February 22, 2019 9:07 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #16

PlatinumOne: This is my deck. I have found Stirrings to be exceptional in the deck. If you would like to prove to me that it is a bad card, build you own mono green prison deck w/o stirrings, and post your record.

I am aware of the math, and I am fine digging 5, finding a land, and putting 5 non-bridge cards on the bottom of my library.

Likewise, I am playing Witchbane Orb , and I am not asking if it is good. I am asking how many for the current meta, with Phoenix and Burn becoming popular.

I apologize for being rude, but I don't like the subject straying.

February 22, 2019 9:23 p.m.

PlatinumOne says... #17

the subject isn't straying. you are asking how many, and i am saying 0. Witchbane Orb flat out does not help against burn or phoenix. it just doesn't. if you were actually aware of the math, you would know that stirrings is anything "but" exceptional in that deck. and i never said stirrings was a "bad" card. i'm saying it doesn't belong in the deck you are trying to build. it just doesn't.

February 22, 2019 9:40 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #18

PlatinumOne:

You are not helping. Orb is a fine card, and saying that it dosen't help against Burn of Phoenix is ridiculous. Orb sees play, and is used primarily as a sideboard against burn in modern. I belive that people would have recognized a better artifact card that grants hexproof. Your previous argument, they are boarding in destruction, is irrelivant. They might even use it on a bridge or chalice instead of wiating for a hexproof card.

I am perfectly aware of the math, and when you have tested your stirringless version of the deck, tell me the results. I see no reason why not to play stirrings, the card has been in testing exceptional. Mono Red prison strugles if it dosen't draw the right lock pieces. This digs 5, and at the (almost) very least lets me find a land. Although you say that the percentage of hits is low, you don't take into account how important putting 5 non lock pieces can be. It also dosen't take into account how important the cards I am digging for are. Mono Green dosen't have Serum Visions . Think of this as a combo deck. I need to last 3-4 turns out with Bridge. I won't reallisticly draw a bridge every game, this increeses the number of games I have with bridge greatly. Stirrings is great in the deck.

I don't care if you think Orb is a bad card, and my deck is dysynergistic.

The question I asked was "what is the best split for the current modern format between Witchbane Orb and Thrun, the Last Troll ?"

In other words, Do you think that burn or control will be more popular?

Again I apologize for being rude, but
you are also being rude. Please stop crtisizing my card choices, I have done my reaserch and these cards are the ones I have chosen.

February 23, 2019 1:12 a.m.

PlatinumOne says... #19

orb is not a fine card, period. Sun Droplet is better. Dragon's Claw is better. also, i'm not even the one who talked about an opponent sideboarding in removal. stirrings doesn't help, and basic math proves that. the odds of it revealing nothing but a land are just too high. the card then does essentially nothing. yes i realize what your question was, but you're not understanding my answer, which is that the best split of thrun:orb is X:0, where x is thrun. if your research shows orb to be the "best anti-burn card in the format for this deck" (as you said earlier) then you havent done proper research. i've already shown you 2 cards that are FAR superior, and thats just what I remembered off the top of my head with no gatherer searches.

February 23, 2019 1:27 a.m.

PlatinumOne says... #20

orb is not a fine card, period. Sun Droplet is better. Dragon's Claw is better. also, i'm not even the one who talked about an opponent sideboarding in removal. stirrings doesn't help, and basic math proves that. the odds of it revealing nothing but a land are just too high. the card then does essentially nothing. yes i realize what your question was, but you're not understanding my answer, which is that the best split of thrun:orb is X:0, where x is thrun. if your research shows orb to be the "best anti-burn card in the format for this deck" (as you said earlier) then you havent done proper research. i've already shown you 2 cards that are FAR superior, and thats just what I remembered off the top of my head with no gatherer searches.

February 23, 2019 1:27 a.m.

PlatinumOne says... #21

orb doesn't help against burn or phoenix because turn 4 is just far too late against those decks. not sure how you're not understanding this. burn kills you on turn 4, and phoenix decks don't even need to target you with their spells. they're casting cantrips and then getting a free phoenix to attack you with. that phoenix flies right past your orb.

February 23, 2019 1:30 a.m.

PlatinumOne you’re completely missing the point in a monumental way by arguing points he never asked for..

The OP was essentially: “Should I run a 3-1 or 2-2 split between cards (X) & (Y)?” A very specific question.. Whereas you’re coming in and saying “(X) is a terrible card with NO redeeming qualities whatsoever, and instead you should be running (Z), (Q), or (V)”. Have you considered that maybe he just really wants to run it (a pet card)? Or maybe that’s what he has on hand at the moment? There’s any number of reasons, but keep this in mind: He is building HIS deck; not YOURS.. And even if you are 100% objectively correct, he seems to have fun with what he’s running, and to continue to “beat a dead horse” over & over only reflects poorly on you.. Quit trying to piss in his Cheerios to make yourself feel superior.. If it turns out to be an objectively bad card choice for any or all of the reasons you stated, fine, he’ll figure it out firsthand..

February 23, 2019 3:54 a.m. Edited.

APPLE01DOJ says... #23

I forgot to mention a card I'm currently a big fan of. Fountain of Renewal . It can come down turn 1, requires no additional resources and can cashed in for an extra draw at instant speed should you get to a point you don't need it.

February 23, 2019 2:10 p.m.

PlatinumOne says... #24

Metroid_Hybrid i am not missing the point. i realize he was asking how many he should use, and that number is 0. period.

February 23, 2019 4:50 p.m.

sylvannos says... #25

Orbs of Warding made Witchbane Orb obsolete, IMO. If you could play Witchbane Orb , you're probably playing Tron. The soonest you can get Witchbane Orb out is the same turn you could just cast Orbs of Warding .

But you're not on Tron, and you're trying to lock your opponent out as soon as possible with Chalice of the Void . You already have Ensnaring Bridge . Between these, I'm not sure why you would need much else for Burn. With Chalice of the Void on 1 and 2, with Ensnaring Bridge coming down turn 2 or 3, Burn can't do anything except... Lava Spike and Skewer the Critics ?

So if anything, I'd board in Simian Spirit Guide s to cast Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge as soon as possible. It even helps empty your hand faster. The real concern is locking yourself out of casting Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl with your own Chalice of the Void . I'm also not sure why you have Damping Sphere because it also locks out Utopia Sprawl .

Also, Gemstone Caverns seems equally hilarious with Ensnaring Bridge . "Oh no I have Chalice of the Void on turn 1 followed by Ensnaring Bridge on turn 2! How will my opponent ever win?"

February 23, 2019 7:05 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #26

Actually, I can cast orb on turn two :) I can't do that with OoW. 5 Mana is alot, and the damage prevention isn't very helpful in the games I've tested with it.

I have been thinking about using Caverns for some time now, but haven't tested it yet. It really interfears with the Arbor/Sprawl plan because it's not a forest.

I know, Burn dosen't really look like much of a problem, but it's still a bad matchup. They have at least 8 3/2 cmc burn spells, possibly more, and they usally have a DR to get rid of the chalice. I like the extra protection. Besides I can't always find That Chalice :)

Anyways: Do You think I should play more control hate, or more burn hate?

P.S. Utopia Sprawl isn't effected by Damping Sphere :)

February 24, 2019 12:23 p.m.

sylvannos says... #27

Huh, sure enough. I always thought Utopia Sprawl was worded like Gift of Paradise .

But anywho, I'd focus more on control hate over Burn. I think if you can churn out Chalice of the Void fast enough, you can lock Burn out of the game.

February 24, 2019 8:14 p.m.

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