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Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Aug. 1, 2015, 1:23 a.m. by Serra_Sentinel
control in Modern right now. And, if not control, then extreme value creatures and spells. I think that, with the release of Origins, the archetype, or at least shard, of Esper control stands a chance. While I realize that Jeskai and Grixis also got access to some pretty cool stuff, I love Esper. I can't really tell you why, and I'd love to see a resurgence in the format.
UWb Tron Gifts could be an example of such a control deck, so far in my playing of it I've found it to work pretty well against jund and a lot of other decks don't play out as a complete disadvantage to it either since it has both a heavy control play and a couple combo's that force the opponent on the defensive. Not quite sure what origins specifically gave my deck, but it still plays well enough against the origins cards so far.
August 1, 2015 1:52 a.m.
I guess Orbs of Warding might be worth a thought to include, though it's likely too slow compared to the leyline, but trades that by being easier to cast and having a little extra effect.
August 1, 2015 2:04 a.m.
No offense, but that decklist just looks way too all over the place. Running so many 1-ofs and 2-ofs will hurt your consistency significantly, even with the Gifts package. Also, I'm not sure that's really a control deck. You only run a handful of counters, 1 wrath, and 4 paths. Again, not trying to attack your list at all, I just don't see it being competitive at a tier 1 event. Also, if you check out MTGgoldfish, you'll see that Gifts Tron is strong against Jund, but weak against pretty much everything else. It losses pretty hard to Twin, Grixis, and Junk.
August 1, 2015 2:06 a.m. Edited.
Serra_Sentinel says... #7
White got Hixus, Prison Warden, Archangel of Tithes, and a decent answer to token strategies in the form of Hallowed Moonlight. Blue got a decent Planeswalker out of Jace, Telepath Unbound Flip and possibly a would be hand-renewal card out of Day's Undoing. Black got Tainted Remedy to quickly answer a life gain deck and possibly Dark Petition and Erebos's Titan. Maybe I'm wrong, but, there's always a chance. Plus, with all the counters and noncreature spells that you have to play. Maybe Monastery Mentor is worth a couple of slots.
August 1, 2015 11:13 a.m.
If you want to build an Esper Midrange/Control shell, I think you have to start with Wall of Omens, Snapcaster Mage, and Restoration Angel for massive card advantage (and you throw in Serum Visions to give you something to do T1). After that, you're probably looking at Dismember and Path to Exile for spot removal, your bog standard counterspell suite (Cryptic Command, Mana Leak, Remand, and Spell Snare mainboard, Countersquall and Dispel) in the side. As a finisher, I like Dragonlord Ojutai. You can use Minamo, School at Water's Edge to keep him untapped, and he's a big flying beater that gets you cards. I think that's a pretty strong shell, actually, so if you'll excuse me... /runs off to build a deck
August 1, 2015 2:26 p.m.
Serra_Sentinel says... #9
So, if that's what Esper control looks like, what does Bant control look like? Haha. Anyway, that isn't a "shell" so much as it is "every control list that exists right now." I was hoping that there'd be another way. Oh well.
August 1, 2015 3:42 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #10
I've been toying around recently with a Esper Delve-Control shell recently. Take the core of Chapin's Grixis list (the Serums, the Thought Scour, counterspells, Tasigur, etc.) and use Path, Go for the Throat, and Lingering Souls instead of Terminate, Bolt, and some of the red utility. Also cue Celestial Colonnade.
White's main draw is in the sideboard material and Lingering Souls. Esper fits a grindier meta, while Grixis fits a faster meta.
For example, my meta is basically Twin (UR and Grixis varieties), Grixis control, and Abzan Midrange, with some random decks tossed in. Thus, having Lingering Souls and Path to Exile is great, while having Bolt.. just isn't.
Again, though... most of this info is just in theory -- I may end up playing an Esper list today at FNM (Modern).
August 1, 2015 4:47 p.m.
That's definitely another way to go about it, yeah. As a third, you could probably look at the Esper Mentor lists that were sort of popular before this whole Grixis wave showed up. Monastery Mentor as a base, Lingering Souls and Gurmag Angler + Snapcaster Mage + Tasigur, the Golden Fang as his backup, and a whole lot of CMC1 spells.
August 1, 2015 6:13 p.m.
I played a Monastery Mentor build but in Dega for a while, and it worked very well. I think having red for burn spells is stronger in that deck than blue for counters. But Lingering Souls with Mentor is just massive card advantage.
August 1, 2015 6:17 p.m.
You don't really run many counters in a Esper Mentor deck. Just enough to reasonably protect the main man, and the rest is a ton of cantrips (Gitaxian Probe/Serum Visions/Thought Scour), which (given the Prowess triggers) are going to generate huge amounts of value.
August 1, 2015 9:37 p.m. Edited.
TheAnnihilator says... #14
So, I just got back from ModernNM playing the Esper list I described above (I can post it if anyone requests it) and got 2nd place. I ended up facing Grixis Delver, then Grishoalbrand, then Grixis Control, and finally losing my only match to Abzan Midrange (aka not Little Kid abzan) at the end of the night.
Long story short, Lingering Souls OP. Every deck I casted it against just couldn't deal with it (even Abzan, unless they had the Gavony).
Another thing that surprised me was that the deck has no bad matchups, except maybe Burn. Twin? No problem. Affinity? How about this Stony Silence. Even the junk match (which 2-0'd me) seemed more 50-50, and I just didn't have the necessary experience to pilot the deck perfectly.
August 2, 2015 1:10 a.m.
I would definitely be interested in seeing your list. As I said, I played Dega Mentor for a while, and I found the same thing with Souls. It just flat out wins games.
August 2, 2015 1:26 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #16
@kmcree Here's the exact 75 I played tonight:
Who ever said anything about Grixis Control? Playtest
Modern
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 0 VIEWS
There are some things on it that I'm not sold on, like the Rule of Law in the side (it literally never left the board), and not playing all 4 Lingering Souls main. Also, I never really saw Gurmag Angler in the games I played (other than bottoming it with a Serum Visions that really needed to find lands).
Speaking of needing to find lands, I drew into more than a comfortable amout of 1-land hands (some I kept, some I didn't -- the ones I kept were always on the draw with a Serum or a Thought Scour and payed off well.)
Other things to note: Darkslick Shores was great, and so was Inquisition of Kozilek, though I would play any more than the 2 I have. The Duress in the side could easily be a 2nd Thoughtseize (an edit I considered making, but was ultimately too lazy to).
August 2, 2015 3:31 a.m.
My morning is going to be a little crazy, but I will definitely take a look at that later this afternoon.
kmcree says... #2
If you're looking for a strong "value" deck, I think either Dega or Grixis are better options. I think Esper has potential as a control deck, but the main problem is that it lacks a go-to finisher. Sure, Creeping Tar Pit and Celestial Colonnade are strong, but I think you need more than that. You lose Keranos by not playing red, and Batterskull is pretty underwhelming in the current meta. You could run a Gifts Ungiven package, but I'm not sure how strong that is right now based on what else is in the format. Unfortunately control (outside of maybe Grixis) just isn't really in a great place right now.
August 1, 2015 1:36 a.m.