Let's talk about demons, control, and early game strategy
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on July 22, 2016, 11:19 a.m. by LordZazu
Yesterday I started brainstorming up a deck - mono black control, based around Demons. What are you guys favorite/opinions on best demons? Most of the ones I added to the deck are more straight forward, based around creature control. The short list of demons is as follows:
1x Griselbrand - this guy is the king of the deck, he's an obvious shoo-in in any self-respecting demon deck.
2x Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis - When he swings alone, the opponent sacrifices a creature, plus having Exalted. He's a fun critter.
2x Reaper from the Abyss - his Morbid ability allows you to get double the bang for your buck off Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis' ability, or the opponent trying to get a Desecration Demon off their back, or even when you destroy a creature with Victim of Night or Doomblade.
4x Desecration Demon - This is one tasty demon. I love it. 2BB for a 6/6 flyer? So the opponent can tap it by sacrificing a creature, but with me constantly removing their creatures, it's doubtful they'll be willing to sac their own FOR me. Even if they do, it gets +1/+1 bigger.
2x Indulgent Tormentor - Like Bloodgift Demon on steroids, but unfortunate boltbait. So if I smell burn, I'll be sideboarding Bloodgift Demon just in case.
2x Rune-Scarred Demon - One of my favorite demons, I like to look at him as a 4/5 cost 6/6 flyer and a 2/3 cost Diabolic Tutor built into one. 7 is pricy, but I gladly pay it. Also, he's got some pretty wicked art, and he was one of the first demons I owned in Magic, so I'm attached.
I'm interested to see what demons you come up with in the comments.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Cabal Coffers, and Liliana of the Dark Realms will be providing my mana ramp for my demons, and Diabolic Tutor/Liliana Vess will be providing my tutoring needs.
This leaves me with early game strategy. Do I go with small 2/3 cmc utility creatures (something black is lacking compared to other colors) such as Hypnotic Specter, Geralf's Messenger, Gatekeeper of Malakir, or maybe Vampire Nighthawk? Or do I go full disruption/removal for early game with cards like Duress, Inquisition of Kozilek, and trusty Victim of Nights? I will also be running Hero's Downfall, to be reserved for bigger threats, and walkers. Sideboarding Damnation (even though it's like a $65 card) because it's such a beautiful card (I love the art) and the name goes with the theme of this deck (I'm a nerd), because who doesn't like wiping creatures without the chance of regeneration for 2BB? More to be moved into the deck in case I'm playing against an agrro deck, or I'm facing down a horde of tokens, etc.
Cabal coffers is not modern playable.
I doubt you will be assembling 7 or 8 mana creatures in modern without serious, serious ramp. Which you don't have access to because you're in black.
July 22, 2016 11:34 a.m.
gasp I didn't realize Cabal Coffers was that old ChiefBell. And TMBRLZ I will be playing it in a competitive meta but I will also be playing a lot of casual because just enjoy playing. I like the cutthroat playstyle of tournaments but I also enjoy chilling at my LGS or sitting back with a buddy or my brother and playing Magic, and having a beer or whatnot. I've been kind of thinking disruption and removal are the way to go also.
July 22, 2016 11:45 a.m.
It really hurts my heart that Cabal Coffers is too old. I can't believe I didn't realize this. Lol.
July 22, 2016 11:48 a.m.
In a creature heavy meta, Archfiend of Depravity is tough on your opponents. I have also seen ridiculous Soulflayer plays before as well (self-mill/self-sacrifice).
July 22, 2016 11:50 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #7
If you're attempting to take this into any form of competitive environment. Don't. It's fine for casual play, but Modern is a relatively fast format. If you don't have an established presence before turn 4, you've likely lost. Unless, you're playing a Control deck. But, Mono Black Control lacks all the tools it needs to be a proper control deck in Modern. If you're adamant about this... well I would suggest trying U/B Control.
July 22, 2016 noon
I dig Archfiend of Depravity Sigmafie, I can possibly get him in the mix. And thanks for the vote of confidence CanadianShinobi :P :P Can you elaborate a little bit more on the tools it is lacking? I had actually considered splashing/adding blue.
July 22, 2016 12:10 p.m.
What he's trying to say is that with only one color and no way to kill your opponent before turn 6 you're in for a hell of a challenge.
Most of Modern meta is aggro based right now. You need to be able to effectively deal with and shut down decks who's prime directive is to have you dead by turn 3 or 4 (if not somehow sooner).
All of these decks with the exception of maybe Nahiri Control have basically won the game by turn 4 if you haven't seriously disrupted their game plan.
Brutally fast and unforgiving aggro and midrange decks make up almost 50% of the competitive meta game right now. True control decks in comparison make up less than 25%. That's not to say you can't change that with the right deck, but (not to be rude) relying on MBC and Demons to get there is immensely unlikely.
Demons cost too much and don't offer enough in return for their cost to get you towards winning. Most of them are subject to every form of removable thinkable too. God forbid you face another control deck that just waits for you to try and cast one.
Angel and Demon decks are nice concepts for competitive play. But due to their expensive CMC nature and limited return on investment, they really aren't worth the effort.
I'm not going to say what CanadianShinobi did and say don't do it. I say more power to you. But don't walk in and expect to be winning any FNMs when you're confronted with Infect, Jund, and Tron decks that will walk right through you. You may get the deck to a level that it could handle the meta, but it will take some serious effort and maybe a more conservative devotion to the demon creature type.
But with all respect and support for the brewer man, you do you.
I'm just sharing with you what I know in my experience. I've been running Modern tournaments for two years. I'm used to very aggressive tournaments with plenty of Top 8 decks.
July 22, 2016 12:28 p.m. Edited.
CanadianShinobi says... #10
Sorry if I was a little blunt. But, I did say the deck would be fine in a casual environment. TMBRLZ has outlined the nuanced aspects of why a Mono Black deck would be unsuccessful in the current metagame, especially with your focus on demons. I'll give you a comparison of why Mono Black Control doesn't stack up to the current premier control deck, Nahiri Jeskai Control.
Now, I don't have a Mono Black list readily available, but I can tell you that Mono Black lacks flexibility because it is limited to a single colour. That means if you run into Affinity, Infect or Burn, you pretty much have to give them the game. Black has excellent removal, but it doesn't have anything on the level of Path to Exile. Sure, it has Doom Blade or Go for the Throat but in Control decks, one mana can be the difference between win and lose.
Next, Mono Black lacks powerful card draw. Nahiri Jeskai has a wide variety of cheap cantrips and a lot of fuel for the late game in Ancestral Vision. This means, that once it stabilizes it has the ability to draw into late game threats, or, having those on hand already; the ability to draw into more tools to maintain tempo. Remand is an excellent card in this kind of situation, even late game, because forcing an opponent to spend mana reduces the likelihood of them being able to reestablish their board.
Mono Black lacks an effective means of closing the game. Nahiri Jeskai is... interesting. It's built on the foundation of the old American Control deck. However, with Nahiri, the Harbinger and Ancestral Vision the deck is now able to effective close out games, something the old American Control deck struggled with. As a planeswalker, Nahiri is somewhat problematic to deal with in, especially with a playset in the deck. It's a must answer card. Jund presents opponents with the same problem with Liliana of the Veil. Answer it, or lose. But, in answering one threat, you open yourself up to more threats.
This is why I suggested opting toward a U/B Control list. You open your options to be flexible and have access to powerful draw spells, cantrips and tempo plays. I hope this has be informative. I never meant to discourage you entirely, but it's best to have a realistic expectation of what a Mono Black deck, that is particular top heavy, can do in an aggressive meta game. And the answer, unfortunately, is not much. If you want to refine it, by all means I'd be willing to help. I have a fairly firm grasp on Control decks, even if I'm a little rusty on my Modern play and knowledge currently.
July 22, 2016 1:19 p.m. Edited.
I was personally thinking more 
. Rakdos colors opens up a lot more options in terms of control tech:
You also get access to the following demons, who have more competitive value due to more manageable CMCs
You also have Rakdos the Defiler and Sire Of Insanity if you want to get a little crazy.
If you do consider moving into another color (which will make your competitive edge much sharper), that's my two cents.
July 22, 2016 1:59 p.m.
Card draw you could get from Sign in Blood / Night's Whisper.
Seems like both Dimir and rakdos have things to offer here.
July 22, 2016 2:03 p.m.
in terms of tutoring, Blood Speaker is much better than anything you mentioned IMO.
July 22, 2016 2:14 p.m.
The issue with demons is they are high cost, their effects while powerful have elements you cannot control, and generally they don't protect themselves or have stats which do.
Another thing you said made it seem like you planned to get multiple out at once. These cards only help you late game so getting multiple out is unrealistic. Control decks need their cards to scale better. A Snapcaster Mage can be Ambush Viper or a Cryptic Command at different points in the game. Or if you have to play a card just as a threat, does it beat Wurmcoil Engine, which is easier on mana, is a 6/6 who turns into 2 3/3s and is only vulnerable to Path.
Mono-black is also very greedy, and doesn't have access to manlands, which provide fixing and threats which are good at every point of the game. You can't even really justify Mutavault if you want to play something like Geth's Verdict. The draw is limited and sorcery speed or is just looting, so you have no way to pull ahead.
July 22, 2016 3:22 p.m.
If you want to play Demons, you build it like G/B Rock, but in different colors. 4 Abyssal Persecutor and 4 Desecration Demon is nothing to mess with when they're backed up by tons of hand disruption and creature hate.
Most demons are also out of range of Night of Souls' Betrayal and Languish, letting you play lots of board wipes that your own creatures live through.
Here, here, here, here, and here are all decks that have performed reasonably well taking advantage of demons in Modern.
TappedOut's very own APPLE01DOJ also has extensive explanations on G/B Control using Abyssal Persecutor, not to mention Mono-Black. I think he also had Desecration Demon in there at one point, but I'm not sure.
July 22, 2016 5:37 p.m.
All so if I am not mistaken Diabolic Tutor is only legal in commander decks. But I may of misread that. But for playing with your friends the deck seems great.
TMBRLZ says... #2
What kind of environment are you looking at using this deck in?
Competitive top 8 meta or some thing more casual?
If the former, than you'll definitely want nothing but straight disruption and removal until you land enough mana to start actually doing something with your demons.
July 22, 2016 11:30 a.m.