I WANT BIG FAT FLIERS!
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on June 1, 2016, 7:41 p.m. by smackder
What's up guys, here's the thing, all i want to do is attack with big fat fliers! Angels, dragons etc... is there a competitive enough build that can allow me to do that? That is all.
Cheers
ducttapedeckbox says... #3
There's been a RW Dragon Moon or RW Angel Moon deck floating around, but it's not the most competitive.
June 1, 2016 7:56 p.m.
I've played around with Skred with dragons, its okay rothgar13, but not the best. I might have to try your suggestion ducttapedeckbox. In general it makes me sad there's not really any decks with any huge fliers
June 1, 2016 9:40 p.m.
CharonSquared says... #5
I heard that Emrakul, the Aeons Torn was a big fat flyer. You can ramp into him with the Tron lands or cheat him into play with Nahiri in Jeskai control.
June 1, 2016 9:56 p.m.
chaoswalker says... #6
fat fliers?
go voltron
That's where you take a hexproof creature and shove enchantments on it until it's stupid and just keep slamming into the opponent.
there's Sigarda, Host of Herons and the deck Don't Touch my Spirits (Turn 5 Win)
June 1, 2016 9:59 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #7
It's mostly because Modern is a format with very efficient cards. Your threats are going to come in the 3-4 CMC range for most decks (1-2 CMC for some), and that doesn't translate to large creatures with evasion.
If you're set on this goal, then EDH would be a much better format.
June 1, 2016 10:17 p.m.
kmavroulis says... #8
This is my deck that i played at SCG Baltimore in April, it is fun to play, is all angels, sometimes it is awesome, sometimes it gets killed, 50-50 overall i would say. Some people call it angel moon, i just call it RW Angels
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/32762_Daily-Digest-Guardian-Angels.html
June 2, 2016 12:11 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #9
Big fat Flyers? I like you.
Eater of Days (he actually is huge but requires a Stifle / Torpor Orb effect)
Simic Sky Swallower is also a massive f*cker :)
June 2, 2016 3:58 a.m.
Lord of Lineage
Flip... is one big fat flyer that breeds big fat flyer tokens.
Of course vampire deck can't be competitive in the meta of Splinter Twin, Summer Bloom...
...oh, wait, those are banned.
June 2, 2016 12:22 p.m.
Lord of Lineage Flip fails the Bolt test as a 4-drop, though. If we're talking Vampires, I'd rather have Vampire Nocturnus (which can also fail the Bolt test, but less often).
June 2, 2016 1:14 p.m.
Nocturnus does not allow powerhouses like Stromkirk Captain, Kolaghan's Command the latter which solves the bolt problem.
Bloodline keeper, can flip as it does not need to tap to use the transform ability, so it can be immune to bolt as soon as its on the field, just like vampire nocturnus.
June 2, 2016 1:23 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #13
"powerhouses like Stromkirk Captain"... Wait what?! +1/+1 first strike isn't good. Knight Exemplar, Drogskol Captain or Death Baron are much better 3 cmc 'lords' tbh.
Also I don't quite see how Keeper is a 'fat flyer' by being a 3/3 initialy. And good luck using him if you ever get to transform him in modern ;)
June 2, 2016 1:34 p.m.
Not +1/+1, but 1st strike.
On attack it can kill infect, and deathtouch without a blink of the eye, on blocking, it can gang up and kill attackers without worry of loss of the creatures.
So yes its brutally powerfull. On the same level as Knight Exemplar - which is good enough for legacy...
+1/+1 doesn't matter that much, that is why Death Baron, Captivating Vampire & the like are shit.
June 2, 2016 1:48 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #15
Ahah man do you even play modern? At a semi competitive level even? What matters here is the damage you get through. +1/+1 does it all. First strike is just plain shit tbh. It's decent vs creature heavy decks but that's pretty much it. And deathtouch isn't a thing in the format.
If Keeper is such a beats ad you say it is, why don't we see it played more? And why does it cost 0.15$ when Baron is 16$?
No offence but if you don't know shit, just don't say shit :-)
June 2, 2016 1:58 p.m.
First of all, Vampire Nocturnus does allow for cards like Stromkirk Captain. It's black and red. "Gold" is not a color in the actual game, though it is in the card border. Furthermore, it is close to impossible to flip a Bloodline Keeper Flip in real games of Modern, as it is too slow for the decks that won't kill it (to cast and flip immediately effectively makes it a 5-drop), and its condition will never be met against interactive decks. Nocturnus at least stands a chance of doing something useful.
frusciante7 may have been a bit blunt, but his point is valid - you should read up on the relevant interactions before you comment.
June 2, 2016 2:17 p.m. Edited.
Yeah sure... things like red burn spells, are nothing one would want to have in his her deck.
Also stating that modern games end before turn 5 is on the border between naive and stupid. Yes there are decks that CAN win before turn 5 - with a good hand, and without hindrance from the opponent. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ALWAYS WIN BEFORE THAT, OR EVEN MOST OF THE TIME DO SO.
Price does not represents the power of a card well (especially if the rarities are not the same), as is the case with Death Baron & Stromkirk Captain - if doubt think about it what would you like more zombies + their lord, or vampires + their lord.
Most modern decks use creatures in some way or other to win. Stating otherwise is just false.
(Is Captivating Vampire better than stromkirk captin too? ... it costs more)
Vampire Nocturnus functions as a permanent pump spell. And as such it has a very strict limit in its power. Bloodline Keeper
Flip on the other hand generates a LOT MORE value. Nocturnus if left unchecked does not necessarily wins the game, unlike bloodline keeper. To put it simply, AFTER BOARDWIPE VAMPIRE NOCTURNUS IS JUST A LOT WORSE TOPDECK - and in a creature based strategy its not that bad of an idea to plan against board wipes. (That is without touching on the fact that one can topdeck a land, and not have uncracked fetches on the field)
Also in modern ramp is a thing (and in a tribe where best thing come at 2/3/4 cmc its not bad to have such things) ->Springleaf Drum
June 2, 2016 3:05 p.m.
I agree that price is a poor indicator of power level, and that first strike is better than it has been given credit for thus far in this conversation. That said, it is a complementary ability at best - evasion is what aggro decks truly want.
Even if decks don't win by T5, they usually don't take much longer to either win or rip apart your gameplan, and a T5 Bloodline Keeper Flip cast + flip assumes that (a) you have 5 Vampires, and (b) you made 5 land drops. The latter point is just as crucial - it takes about 24 lands (which pushes you out of the realm of aggro, and therefore makes the deck highly unlikely to meet condition (a)) to get there consistently. Your statements about ramp elements would only serve to dilute the deck further. These are the things that make Bloodline Keeper Flip a bad card.
I find it interesting that you comment about Vampire Nocturnus being a bad topdeck, when it potentially can be a 5/4 flier for 
- unlike Bloodline Keeper
Flip, its pump effect applies to itself. It actually is fairly decent as a solo beater, provided you have the interaction to keep its way clear (and why wouldn't you?).
June 2, 2016 3:55 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #19
I'm the first one to say it's stupid to assume all modern decks win by T5. I myself am a huge control player, with games going most of the time around 20 turns. But that isn't the point here :)
The thing is some abilities are much more relevant than others. Deathtouch / first strike does NOTHING against undestructible, because THEY CAN'T BE DESTROY. Therefore Exemplar beats Baron / Captain while allowing your team to sruvive wrath effects. He's then much stronger
And yes Captivating Vampire is better than captain because he can steal your opponent's board to make it yours. He can, for example, steal Captain and give all you vampire first strike. Capatin doesn't allow that. So if your opponent is in a position where he can't get rid of your board and/or answer Captivating Vampire, what is he to do?! If he plays a creature it gets stolen, if he doesn't he gets crushed. Once again, Captain is a simple 2/2 first striker that does - almost - nothing else :)
Last thing : price is a good indicator of a cards power. It depends on a lot of things but you see Liliana of the Veil, Snapcaster Mage and Tarmogoyf (Sylvan Library / Force of Will if you ever played legacy) being super expensive. There MIGHT be a reason here... or not, I bet you know better ;)
Anyways the whole conversation we're having is completely off topic. Bloodline Keeper Flip is a nice card for casual / edh but certainly not a 'fatty flyer' for modern.
June 2, 2016 4 p.m.
Captivating Vampire is a very poor win-more card. Tapping 5 creatures is a big cost (instead of attacking), and having 5 creatures, for the ability to be relevant is a very big IF.
You should learn some free market economy... you know supply , demand, ..etc.
Its not a surprise that a rare card costs more than an uncommon, simply be the virtue of short supply. If you add the fact that Captivating Vampire can function in a mono colored deck just as well - without the need for pricey fetch lends - it shows all the reasons for its price.
(As a side note i played the bloody thing, but not even once was its ability to steal creatures relevant.)
(Exemplar does not survive the better wrath effects... at least i am strongly in favor of Mutilate, Black Sun's Zenith, Languish kind of removal. It kill everything, no questions asked.)
Vampire Nocturnus is a good finish for aggro, but its a bad topdeck, cannot really recover from board wipe, and has a lot less raw power than Bloodline Keeper
Flip. At the top of ones curve people like to have their strongest cards, not a new liability to board wipes, but something that is powerful on it own right.(Also Vampire nocturnus is terrible in any non vampire deck, while for 4 mana a 3/3 flyerr that creates 2/2 flyers if not bad, in any deck - well creature decks)
Who said that Flyers need to be in an aggro deck?
Midrange exist, and is a viable option for creature decks.
June 2, 2016 4:32 p.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #21
Xica man I'm sorry for you. I tried but it seems we won't get along very well. You don't understand much sadly.
So let's get down to it shall we :)
"having 5 creatures, for the ability to be relevant is a very big IF"...-> Says the guy who recommands Bloodline Keeper Flip which is a card THAT REQUIRES 5 VAMPIRES TO FLIP! Enough said already but let's keep on breaking you down :)
"You should learn some free market economy" (lol you don't know me son) "Its not a surprise that a rare card costs more than an uncommon, simply be the virtue of short supply"-> So if we apply your ruthless logic to MTG, that means ANY MYTHIC RARE SHOULD BE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN ANY RARE. Aight, ask Comet Storm / Epic Experiment smart boy :)
"If you add the fact that Captivating Vampire can function in a mono colored deck just as well - without the need for pricey fetch lends - it shows all the reasons for its price."-> You just made me laugh. But you made no point there sadly. I've never - ever - read/heard that in my entire life...
"As a side note i played the bloody thing, but not even once was its ability to steal creatures relevant."-> It means you're not a great deck builder, because paying 3 mana for a 2/2 that +1/+1 your guys with no effect on top of it is sad :(
"It kill everything, no questions asked"-> That's, once again, wrong. Mutilate depends on the amount of SWAMPS you play. If you have 5 you can't kill a Primeval Titan. Black Sun's Zenith depends on the amount of LANDS you have. There you'll need 8 + tap our to kill a Titan... Languish is good but does nothing vs Gurmag Angler, Phyrexian Obliterator, [Include any card with 5 TOUGHNESS or more].
"Vampire Nocturnus is a good finish for aggro, but its a bad topdeck, cannot really recover from board wipe, and has a lot less raw power than Bloodline Keeper"-> Our dear rothgar13 proved you wrong already, I won't even bother for this one :)
"Also Vampire nocturnus is terrible in any non vampire deck"-> One would be retarded not to play Vampire Nocturnus in a Vampire tribal deck since its ability ONLY BUFFS VAMPIRES. Jesus man!
"Who said that Flyers need to be in an aggro deck?"-> Idk, who said that? No one? See Baneslayer Angel in UW control? Or Thundermaw Hellkite in some Blue Moon decks? Btw, did you read the thread's title (I WANT BIG FAT FLIERS!)? :)
"Midrange exist, and is a viable option for creature decks."-> Here again no one ever said the contrary on this topic. Abzan / Naya midrange are tough resilient decks indeed.
Sorry man but someone had to. Farewell, my friend. I'm done with you and with this topic I guess :)
June 2, 2016 5 p.m.
You seem to mis the fact that bloodline keeper, unlike captivating vampire, can generate vampire tokens, thus ensure that it flips. It also has some value i think without flipping, or tell me why is a new 2/2 flyer every turn bad?
Is it that hard to comprehend that prices are based on supply AND demand.
Cards played mostly in some unique strategies in singleton formats will have less demand. (Thus prices will not be in the sky even if they are mythics).
Still prices depend on supply & demand, not on power level of the card, as demand is mainly depends on popularity, not on power level. Of course these two sometimes correlate, but not always, since netdecking is prevalent, and thus many good cards fall outside of scope of most players.
June 2, 2016 6:13 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #23
frusciante7 Frusciante is one of the best songwriters ever! Loved Niandra Lades & Usually Just a T-shirt (one of my favourite albums ever).
As far as swinging in with big flyers in Modern; You should consider building a deck with Goryo's Vengeance... it works on Griselbrand, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Aurelia, the Warleader, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight and any other legendary creature, and if you build the deck right, you can make it pretty competitive. Just make sure if you use Emrakul, you gotta cast goryo's in response to the trigger (shuffle back into library). You can use Sundial of the Infinite if you're looking to keep the creature longer than a turn, but you rarely need to keep your creatures around. I suggest a U/B build to be honest, because as good as the deck can be, there are some HARD answers for it (Grafdigger's Cage, Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void, Hallowed Moonlight). You literally want to make this a control deck with Goryo's Vengeance as a win con. Good discard options are Zombie Infestation, Raven's Crime, Liliana of the Veil and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip (or just Merfolk Looter). You'll want to pack some counterspells and Boomerangs to deal with your weaknesses (and aggro creature decks) as well as some targeted discard like Thoughtseize as well.
rothgar13 says... #2
Not really. Affinity can have you covered from the offensive perspective if you want to deal lots of flying damage (go go Blinkmoth Nexus/Inkmoth Nexus/Ornithopter/Signal Pest/Vault Skirge + Cranial Plating), but the closest I can think of apart from that is Skred Red with a couple of Dragons thrown in for flavor (like Stormbreath Dragon or Thunderbreak Regent).
Alternatively, you could combo off and attack with infinite fliers using Kiki Chord (Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Restoration Angel).
June 1, 2016 7:46 p.m.