I think my werewolf deck has a problem,
Posted on May 9, 2016, 6:22 p.m. by Jaxables
I have looked at many werewolf decks and playtested mine against many other decks and it seems to have issues. I think I am missing something but I can't tell what's wrong. Would appreciate if any of you could take a few minutes to help me out. Thanks!
To be honest, it may just be that they have cards better than you. The modern card pool is large, and most people pick the best cards of the pool. Tribal werewolves may be fun in casual, but simply cannot compete with Tarmogoyf and Liliana of the Veil.
May 9, 2016 7:02 p.m.
ninjaclevs13 - I guess that makes sense, didn't really think of that. Thanks!
May 9, 2016 7:06 p.m.
Warewolves are just a bad card type, great flavor but honestly they just are not strong, they require a turn of doing nothing to actually become good. then just after 2 spells they turn back into something mediocre. 10/10 would not run.
May 9, 2016 8:39 p.m.
Problem is you're low on budget and Magic is mostly a game of money. Some decks are worth several THOUSANDS of euros / dollars. However you can still build a decent one for a couple hundreds or less, and I think Werewolves might have a shot in modern (not Tier 1 but well you can still enjoy the game while being competitive IMO)...
For your deck, I would recommand that you insert Mayor of Avabruck Flip, Huntmaster of the Fells Flip and 4 Moonmist instead. Also, remove Dual Shot for Lightning Bolt / Forked Bolt. It's gonna make the price go up but it's absolutely needed in order to make the deck more competitive.
Also, the mana base is really bad. I'd advise you to at least add some Copperline Gorge / Cinder Glade / Rootbound Crag. They're relatively cheap lands compared to fetches (Wooded Foothills) and shocks Stomping Ground). It might seem like a secondary aspect of the deck but it actually is the most important thing and the first one you should consider when building a deck :)
May 10, 2016 3:37 a.m.
frusciante7 Thanks for your suggestions, I will think about some of those cards once I get some more money... As for the manabase, I have it better in physical I just had no idea what kinds of duel lands I had xD. I will update it as soon as I find some time! Again, thank you for taking the time to give me some advice!
May 10, 2016 9:21 p.m.
You're welcome, that's the whole point of having a forum on here! :)
May 11, 2016 2:48 a.m.
One of the best ways to play Werewolves outside of Standard is to build a prison-style deck.
By using cards like Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void, Thorn of Amethyst, Blood Moon, etc., you can lock your opponent out of the game. You ramp into these early by using Simian Spirit Guide, Fertile Ground, etc. This forces your opponents to flip your wolves, while you continue to play lock pieces, removal, and threats.
If you're playing on a budget, check out these decks over at MtG Goldfish:
Essentially, you could combine these with what you already have. You'd ramp into Molten Rain and Stone Rain with Utopia Sprawl, Arbor Elf, Desperate Ritual, etc. Once your opponent is low on lands, you start playing your Werewolves (like Hanweir Watchkeep Flip or Duskwatch Recruiter Flip) and close out the game.
Hope this helps. I would provide you with what to add/remove, but I'd like to know what kind of budget you have or if you already own some of the cards I mentioned.
May 11, 2016 5:35 p.m.
sylvannos - I am not really interested in this being a land destruction red, or mono red. My budget is very small as this isn't really meant to be super competitive. I don't own any of the cards you have mentioned... Ive been playing for about a year and a half and am just moving into having modern cards in my decks. I will look at those decks though, maybe I will get a feel for what modern decks look like. That's always helpful! Thanks~
May 11, 2016 9:31 p.m.
Werewolves transform clause is casting spells, so if you want to use them aggressively you need to use:
Stall, like: Ethersworn Canonist, Rule of Law, Curse of Exhaustion, Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void
and / or
Effects that let you play your werewolves without casting them, like AEther Vial, Birthing Pod (which is sadly banned) - Also the casted spells count separately for each player, so casting on your opponents turn is the best, if you have some effects that enables you to do so.
They key is not casting spells, but having permanents with long lasting effects.
On the topic of some regulary used werewolves werewolves:
Huntmaster of the Fells Flip is just a bad werewolf, i mean you need to flip it to have its maximum value, thus most of the value of your other werewolves (Mondronen Shaman Flip i would say is better in this kind of tribal deck)
Geier Reach Bandit Flip is problematic to use, as it does not prevent the cards from being flipped back, so if you cast 2 or more wolves in the same turn, not only will itself turn to its day side, but all other of your wolves will do the same... ehh - and on t4 you would want to do something significant, or at least have a good enough blocker on the field, not a human werewolf.
Silverfur partisan is an extremely good card - for certain combo decks.
However other classics are great (Immerwolf, Mayor of Avabruck Flip, Moonmist)
I would also suggest to use permanent based removal, like Ulvenwald Tracker, or Arena, instead of instants, or sorceries.
P.s.: The new werewolves often have serious weaknesses on the night side (compared to the older ones), in exchange for having a somewhat useful day side, sadly if you want to win in modern you need something broken, like exploiting the op night side of some werewolves.
May 12, 2016 9:34 a.m.
@Jaxables: I don't mean you should turn into mono-red or straight land destruction, but rather you could look into how other decks in G/R establish control.
I think if you go pure werewolves, you're going to find the deck is just a bad version of Zoo. Most werewolves get hit by Lightning Bolt, which is the most commonly played card in Modern. The best way to combat this is to instead be more midrange/prison-control, and less aggro-turn-my-guys-sideways-and-attack.
Xica touched on a lot of good points. The only thing I disagree with is Huntmaster of the Fells Flip. It doesn't need to flip because it's pure value. It's like a Kitchen Finks that still comes back after Path to Exile. Huntmaster of the Fells Flip is arguably the best werewolf ever printed, if not, 1 of the best 4-drop creatures ever.
May 12, 2016 5:22 p.m.
I would stick to my point about Huntmaster of the Fells
Its a pure value card, but if you use it in a werewolf tribal deck, and everythiung goes well, you will get 4/4 trample + a 2/2 wolf and 2 life from it.
Tovolar's Magehunter Flip meanwhile produces value while transformed, and strongly discourages casting a lot of spells - which is something we want.
Our cards no turning back to the day side worth a lot more, than a 2/2 token + gaining 2 life. At least in my humble opinion.
Modern is a removal heavy format, that is something every creature deck has to face, lightning bolt is not the greatest problem. Yes it will kill some creatures, but the plan is having an even stronger threat next turn. Things like Forked Bolt, Arc Lightning and board wipes are a lot bigger problem.
May 13, 2016 10:22 a.m.
I think Defense Grid is a good option too vs decks with lots of instant cards they can cast on your turn while messing up with your creatures (burn/control mainly).
May 13, 2016 11:13 a.m.
the number of spells cast counts separtaedly for each player, if any player had cast more than 1 spell the werewolves will flip to their day side.
While werewolves don't generally have haste, so killing them at instant speed is just as good as killing them at sorcery peed, also Grand Abolisher...