How do I beat Ponza?
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Dec. 4, 2017, 4:45 p.m. by 8vomit
Here is what im currently running: Snapcaster Rock. Its a sultai control deck, similar to rock/jund.
Last week at fnm I played against a ponza deck for the first time. It was a semi budget list and it still whooped me. After game 1 I looked at my sideboard, and didnt see anything that seems really realavent.
Here is a non budget version:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17297&d=306951&f=MO
Here is a budget list very similar to what I played against:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-99-69-tix-modern-dark-dwellers-stone-rain
Ponza is very resilient because most of its heavy hitters have nothing to do with eachother, and all demand answers. Ive been told that the best way to handle the deck is to try to nerf the Utopia Sprawl and Arbor Elf asap, but that doesnt seem right to me, because they will inevitably get where they need to.
So im looking for advice from players who have more experience playing against Ponza than I. Is there some great sideboard card that I havent thought of yet? whats the best way to play my deck in that match up?
I am hoping to beat this deck next week. Help me out here. Thanks for looking!
APPLE01DOJ says... #3
It's part of this current shitty meta that Eldrazi brought. Basically, Ponzu, D&T, Eldrazi, Tron, & Humans, & Aggro. Midrange is in a really bad position right now. Nothing worse than playing against Ponzu on the draw when they T2 kill your T1 land, followed by a T3 Acid Moss again killing your only land.
In your deck I would definitely add an answer or 2 capable of dealing with Primeval Titan and Inferno Titan. Probably go down 1 on the Remand and 1 Collective Brutality for a Go for the Throat or 2. Maybe cut a Spellskite or 2 for additional Fatal Pushes (MB) or an Abrupt Decay.
Consider cutting IoK or the 2nd Thrun from your sideboard for a single Back to Nature and Drown in Sorrow (forget the name of the colorless one)
December 4, 2017 5:05 p.m.
What about Murderous Cut? What do u guys think of that compared to Go for the Throat
Also, I dont really see Drown in Sorrow being usefull in that matchup. Id be paying 3 mana to kill 1 arbor elf, 2 if Im lucky. It would be worth ot to kill 2 but I cant count on that happening
December 4, 2017 5:58 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #5
In your deck I think Murderous Cut would be good since you run 4x Thought Scour.
How about a singleton Bile Blight instead of Sorrow?
December 4, 2017 6:04 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #8
I dont play a lot of modern but Murderous Cut seems like the wrong choice. You really want removal that is active t1 so you can hit their mana dorks. I would play more Fatal Push, Abrupt Decay or Dismember before that. decay is nice because you can hit their blood moons with it. However, you may just want a hard counter for that instead since itll stop Stone Rain
December 4, 2017 9:58 p.m.
Agreed. Cheap removal you can bust out on Turn 1 or 2 is the way to go. Abrupt Decay has the added bonus of popping those troublesome Moons.
December 4, 2017 10:23 p.m. Edited.
rockleemyhero
I have to respectfully disagree.
Packing even more removal that is dead against a deck's win conditions and removing what was able to target them, is not very viable, if you want to actually beat the deck.
yes fatal push can kill the Birds of Paradise more reliably than Murderous Cut, but you run 12 removal in all.
Thus there will be very few removal drawn, and its questionable to waste them on birds, if you lose to titans.
I mean this is the cost of Fatal Push & Abrupt Decay that i always warned about. And for some reason people think i am an idiot - well i probably am, but probably not for this reason.
Tl;Dr Don't bring even more dead cards to the table, that is a silly idea, if you want to improve a matchup
December 5, 2017 2:58 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #11
Why don't you play Ponza so you don't have to worry anymore? :D
December 5, 2017 4:12 a.m.
Xica,
Long-term Ponza player here, and ironically, messing with our early mana is a great way to beat us. The idea of killing dorks is to mess with our ability to disrupt Lands on Turn 2 and our ability to ramp into wincons on Turns 3-4.
December 5, 2017 6:14 a.m.
December 5, 2017 7:59 a.m. Edited.
I think you overestimate how robust Ponza's mana is, Xica. Hitting them in the manabase often cripples the deck. Even if it doesn't make them outright stop working (which it often does), when Ponza's playing its threats on curve as opposed to ramping them out ahead of schedule, the deck is much more beatable.
December 5, 2017 9:37 a.m. Edited.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #15
Indeed. The best example is the mirror match: the one drawing the most early LD cards usually wins (from my experience).
December 5, 2017 10:20 a.m.
rothgar13
You are right.
However the deck lacks the necessary number of removal spells. Even if it ditched 1 more "universal" removal (as there is already 3 in his 75), to have 4 Fatal Push, that is not enough to RELIABLY "bolt the bird", when the opponent plays 8-12 mana dorks.
So since its current build doesn't have the number of removal spells to play tempo against Ponza, i tried to suggest, to at least have removal spells that can hit the targets that the opponent plays.
December 5, 2017 10:58 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #17
I haven't seen any Ponza list with '8 to 12' mana dorks so far... 6 is the common amount with 4 Arbor Elf to untap an Utopia Sprawled Forest and 2 Birds of Paradise usually, rarely more.
If you have one however, I'd be interested in checking it out.
December 5, 2017 11:18 a.m.
4x Arbor Elf, 4x Utopia Sprawl, 4x Birds of Paradise hence 12x "dorks" - yes you have no way of interacting with the enchantment on turn1. (and it not a proper mana dork)
However that just makes my point stand stronger, i mean that means that they have 8 dorks, and 4 more ramp that you have no way of interacting, while this decklist attempts to annihilate them with 3-4 Fatal Push.
With 4x Lightning Bolt + 4x Fatal Push i would say its realistic that it could do the "bolt the bird" line most of the time, but with the current setup that is not gonna happen.
December 5, 2017 11:27 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #19
Whatever, Xica. :)
8vomit, I'd advise you to just pack 4 Abrupt Decays if Ponza really is a problem in your meta. Decay hits everything you want early game: mana dorks, Sprawl, Moon, Tracker (I ran her for a while and she's been doing great so some builds might have her too), [insert anything troublesome]. Aside from that, you can't do much except play some more counterspells as rothgar13 suggested.
Ponza is specifically designed to deal with greedy manabase such as you tri-colored build. You'll always have some bad matchups, Ponza is one of them ;)
December 5, 2017 11:48 a.m.
I think im going make room for Go for the Throat for now, maybe a Maelstrom Pulse that way I have something that can answer big guys.
December 5, 2017 12:08 p.m.
What abt Reality Shift is that worth playing? Exile is good bc a lot of people play tron at my shop
December 5, 2017 10:11 p.m.
Reality Shift is an actively bad card. Less bad against Tron, but still bad.
December 6, 2017 1:42 a.m.
rothgar13
Unconditional exile at instant speed is nothing to whine about. It can remove any problem creatures that can be targeted.
But its only good if you don't have better exile options and a vanilla 2/2 does not matter much for your deck.
December 6, 2017 7:28 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #26
I'm really not convinced about Reality Shift for Modern. Looks more like a cheap "fun casual" sudo-removal for Commander or Kitchen Table instead.
If you face lots of Human/Sliver/Eldrazi/Goblins/Merfolk/Weenie decks, then it might not be a good idea to run RS because you'll have higher (mis-)chances of giving them a 2/2 that can turn into an actual dude.
If you face more control builds like UWx Control/Lantern Control/RG Tron/8-Rack, Shift is pretty much a dead card.
To me, it could help against Midrange decks, but there are still much better removals in the format and in your colors.
December 6, 2017 8:22 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast
I didn't mean to imply that Reality Shift is good in the current meta, however this is the instant speed "exile creature" spell that sultai got.
Its pointless against wheenie, but can catch hard to remove threats like Stormbreath Dragon, and would be able to interact well with recursive threats, like Kitchen Finks + Melira, Sylvok Outcast if they would be still played.
It can catch the stuff that tends to be used to hate on the removal of BGX Decks, stuff like Chameleon Colossus, Mirran Crusader ...etc.
Tl;Dr: its not Path to Exile, but its the closest thing the colors, got, and its situationally useful.
December 6, 2017 4:14 p.m.
Kid at my lgs plays tron. In esper on the play I useImp's Mischief and Sacred Ground. Along with Mana Leak and Negate they don't stand a chance. I just fetch basics to get around Blood Moon. On the draw I use Stubborn Denial, Spell Pierce, and discard to avoid blowouts. My deck is built to take down aggro so creatures are no problem since my meta is really aggro and ramp midrange heavy.hope this helps. Any questions just ask.
rothgar13 says... #2
Definitely kill the sources of mana. You need to get ahead on tempo and hopefully put a threat or two out by the time they start casting things. One problem your deck runs into is that you have no counterspells, which are amazing against Ponza (speaking of which, how do you ever beat big mana?). Disdainful Stroke is where I'd start.
December 4, 2017 5 p.m.