Will a Future Antagonist Exploit the Other Weaknesses of the Gatewatch?

Lore forum

Posted on Jan. 18, 2017, 8:38 p.m. by DemonDragonJ

In a previous story installment, Dovin Baan identified several crucial weaknesses of the members of the Gatewatch, with some of the most prominent weaknesses being that Chandra is impulsive and can easily be provoked into acting recklessly, both Jace and Gideon see themselves as being the leaders of the Gatewatch, and none of them fully trust Liliana.

Baral exploited Chandra's weakness quite expertly, and she was saved only by Nissa's intervention, so I wonder if an antagonist in a future block will exploit the other weaknesses of the members of the Gatewatch, or if those weaknesses will naturally become significant to the plot. I highly doubt that the story writers would have mentioned them if they were not to become important, later.

What does everyone else say about this? Will a future antagonist exploit the other weaknesses of the Gatewatch?

Homura_Akemi says... #2

Well, we know that they will be facing Nicol Bolas pretty soon and probably Vraska, who are pretty hard to fight to begin with. It doesn't seem like it takes much to figure out their weaknesses too. I honestly feel bored with their character development already. For example, Kiora and Tamiyo were just so much more interesting and unique than some members (in my opinion Gideon, Ajani, and Jace). And honestly Wizards should not be so pathetic and actually kill off a (main, planeswalker) character for once.

January 18, 2017 8:46 p.m.

kanokarob says... #3

Well I imagine Nicol Bolas almost certainly will. Which ones becomes the next question, as he has the means and capabilities to become aware of and take advantage of all of them.

He's Tezzeret's master, and as such can goad Chandra into taking on a battle she isn't prepared for by claiming responsibilities for Tezzeret's cruelty upon her home and family.

He's an unparalleled strategist, and could easily create a scenario where a leader would have to be necessary, and put Gideon and Jace in the middle of it, incapable of making a decision or, making one in the wrong way. Like a puzzle. With no edge pieces.

He once had Liliana under his thumb, and could either reveal to the rest of the Gatewatch every terrible thing she's responsible for, including some Jace doesn't know about, or claim she still has some loyalty to him, regardless of the validity of it, to lead the Gatewatch into ostracizing her when Bolas knows they will need her later/the abandonment will cripple their morale and stability.

He is an unimaginably powerful, and scary, mind mage, to the point Jace cannot defend against him and in fact fears the mere thought of him. Thus, he could learn each of these weakness with ease.

This is the block to really show us how much Bolas is in a league all his own. We know he can do all of this, but we've yet to see just how expertly he can play it out.

January 18, 2017 8:49 p.m.

shinobigarth says... #4

Lili still has at least 1 of the 4 demons lefts that she needs to get rid of, which is more than enough of a bargaining chip for Bolas to lord over her and use her to pry the Jacetice League apart from the inside. and he can easily mess with Jace too, since Bolas' mind magic outclasses Jace's by 100 to 1.

January 18, 2017 9:56 p.m.

Kravian says... #5

I dunno. Sounds like the sort of situation where TIBALT could come in handy.

January 18, 2017 11:04 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #6

Kravian Just watch Tibalt be the one to kill Bolas

January 18, 2017 11:05 p.m.

DarkMagician says... #7

A battle between the Gatewatch and Bolas should leave the Gatewatch shattered even if Bolas is some how defeated. Done right there's an amazing story to be told.

January 19, 2017 1:21 p.m.

DrLitebur says... #8

Bolas will be the one to break the Gatewatch. How, I am not sure, but it will be him. I also think we will lose another main Planeswalker soon, like we lost Elspeth. Perhaps Garruk will make a return, under Bolas' control and catch someone off guard and end them.

January 19, 2017 4 p.m.

Nobilior says... #9

Homura_Akemi

They killed Venser though.

January 19, 2017 8:24 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #10

Nobilior I swear when they do kill off characters, it's always the best ones like him and Elspeth.

January 19, 2017 8:52 p.m.

shinobigarth says... #11

Please let it be Jace if one of them dies...

January 19, 2017 8:53 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #12

@shinobigarth YES!

January 19, 2017 9:55 p.m.

Dredge4life says... #13

Jace: Garruk, I've come to help you.

Garruk: (Agitated) Hmph.

Jace: Garruk, put down that axe.

Garruk: (thoughtfull) Hmph.

Jace: Garruk, don't make me call Gideon.

Garruk: (annoyed) Hmph.

Jace: I'll do it.

Garruk: Ker-chop.

Jace's head falls to the floor beside his prone body.

Garruk: (slightly disappointed) Hmph.

January 19, 2017 10:06 p.m.

shinobigarth says... #14

Garruk just wanted to axe him a question

January 20, 2017 2:35 a.m.

Vickolas says... #15

Oooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

Nicol Bolas: So, Jace, did you know that Liliana is my servant? Jace: (Starts brooding) NB:(Points at Jace and he falls over dead) NB: Stupid Emo

March 9, 2017 2:20 p.m.

Dredge4life says... #16

I'm okay with this.

March 9, 2017 4:04 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #17

Should this thread just turn into fan fictions of Jace dying?

March 9, 2017 6:29 p.m.

Dredge4life says... #18

Repeat statement.

March 9, 2017 6:45 p.m.

cgannon says... #19

@Homura_Akemi I mean, I wouldn't be opposed to it...

Jace: "I, as the leader of the Gatewatch..."

Gideon: "Wait, you? Leader? Nuh uh, bro. I'm in charge!"

Gideon then proceeds to slap Jace silly until his face no longer resembles a face

Nicol Bolas: "The eff...? I haven't even done anything yet."

But seriously, I don't think Wizards will kill off Jace, because they've likened him to Mickey Mouse in terms of his importance to their brand identity, but I am very willing to be surprised and see Jace's arrogance and moodiness finally put to rest.

If they do kill a member of the Gatewatch, my money is on Gideon. He just seems like the character that would be willing to sacrifice himself for the safety of the others.

March 10, 2017 4:02 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #20

I love Nissa and she is tied for my #1 fav on the Gatewatch, but I just feel like she would be the one to die. As mentioned to me by a friend, Chandra's and Nissa's stories for their home planes are essentially over. If Wizards killed Gideon, then they would lose some possible character development for him on a return to Theros block. Although I do agree that Gideon is the most likely to die with Nissa. Jace is too favored by Wizards, Liliana's story really isn't even halfway done if you think about her two other demons (Razaketh will likely be handled on Amonkhet though) and the stufff going on with the Raven Man and the Chain Veil, killing off Chandra would result in a super angry and sad fanbase, and I feel like Ajani will just fail again at protecting the heroes he is mentoring (allusion to Elspeth).

Gideon: Ok crew, let's planeswalk to Amonkhet now!

Gatewatch: Ok!

Jace planeswalks and gets impaled on a Bolas horn monument

March 10, 2017 8:21 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #21

Liliana: You always did have bad aim Jace...

March 10, 2017 8:22 p.m.

shinobigarth says... #22

If Jace is like their Superman (an emo Superman), maybe they will kill him off....

March 11, 2017 1:36 a.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #23

Why, exactly, is Jace practically the face of M:tG? What is so special about him that he is the game's mascot?

March 11, 2017 1:50 a.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #24

"Like an emo superman" lmao.

DemonDragonJ I agree! I would have wanted Elspeth to be, but she's dead now. I wouldn't mind Liliana as the face of Magic now...

March 11, 2017 7:03 a.m.

Dredge4life says... #25

I don't know, but I hate him. I hate them all, really, except for Ajani. Maybe Nissa.

March 11, 2017 7:05 a.m.

shinobigarth says... #26

No clue why he is except that most people at WOTC seem to like blue the most. Seems like they would either switch "mascots" every now and then, or else just have the entire Gatewatch gang be joint mascots together.

March 11, 2017 5:48 p.m.

kanokarob says... #27

Likely because Jace is the living planeswalker which most decisively matches with the general consensus of "wizard" in terms of visual design and abilities.

Liliana is a necromancer, which while magical, isn't exactly a wizard, and she doesn't carry herself as such either.

Nissa is more of a druid. Also magical, not wizardy.

Gideon's magic is more of a subtle, constant enchantment than anything. He's basically just a soldier with magic on him.

Chandra is a pyromancer, which again is magic, but not what one generally thinks of as a well-rounded wizard, and like Lili, she doesn't carry herself in that way.

Jace is a telepath at his core, yes, but he also works quite a lot with illusions, a very "wizardy" form of magic. He has a vast library, a lot of knowledge, wears robes, and has glowing eyes. His recklessness and general poor decision making is also fairly typical of peoples' idea of a young wizard. He hasn't gathered enough restraint or patience just yet, though he likes to think he has. He's Wizards' mascot because he is the most obvious wizard character.

March 11, 2017 9:37 p.m.

shinobigarth says... #28

Ahhh, the whole wizard thing. Also wizard creatures are almost always blue too.

Wish they would've called themselves Necromancers of the coast instead lol

March 11, 2017 10:10 p.m. Edited.

Homura_Akemi says... #29

Yes!

March 11, 2017 11:01 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #30

kanokarob, in Dungeons & Dragons, a necromancer is a specific type of wizard, one who practices necromancy, just as an enchanter practices enchantment, a diviner practices divination, an evoker practices evocation, and so forth.

March 12, 2017 12:23 a.m.

kanokarob says... #31

DemonDragonJ, in D&D, they have to make certain compromises with the specifics of classes and the like, connecting similar varieties of roles and characters, to simplify their charts and tables while maintaining some degree of diversity. I am speaking of what comes to mind when one thinks of a wizard, and generally, necromancer does not; they are often regarded as their own thing despite obviously practicing a form of magic. Therefore, Liliana would be a weird posterchild for MtG, because she practices a magic form not associated with the term wizard, and does not look or behave like a wizard. That's how Wizards of the Coast likely sees it, anyway.

Would you care to actually comprehend my words rather than just read them? This isn't the first time you've seemingly ignored my point, focusing on discrediting a single detail by taking out of context.

March 12, 2017 7:34 a.m.

shinobigarth says... #32

There are a lot of classes under the "mage" umbrella and they aren't all wizards.

March 12, 2017 12:33 p.m.

Snap157 says... #33

Nissa and Gideon gotta get lost, Nicol bolas needs to then corrupt each of the gatewatch with an enemy color and make them turn on eachother. Sorin comes in a saves the day. Bam.

March 12, 2017 3:06 p.m.

shinobigarth says... #34

Someone's gotta bust Sorin loose first. Bolas definitely could, but I'm not sure if they would work Sorin back into the story just yet.

March 12, 2017 3:30 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #35

Although he technically is not proven dead, I think that we can infer that we will not be seeing him anytime soon, if at all. What if Nahiri showed up though...

March 12, 2017 3:35 p.m.

shinobigarth says... #36

Jace and Tamiyo were saved by Sorin so they're pretty much on his side, and once the rest of the Gatewatch was told Nahiri torched an entire plane, the rest (Gideon, Ajani and Nissa anyway) would go after her so if she showed up, they'd all pretty much want to kill her.

March 12, 2017 7:59 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #37

Liliana would have a turf war with him if he showed up and tried to befriend her Gatewatch, I think Nissa, Gideon, and Ajani would dislike him because of his presence (similar to how Gideon feels towards Liliana), Chandra would probably feel uneasy if the rest of the Gatewatch didn't like him (especially Gideon), and Jace may have problems with another similarly minded being. I also feel like some members of the Gatewatch would at least sympathize with Nahiri, and that they wouldn't think Sorin's actions were justified.

March 12, 2017 8:11 p.m.

shinobigarth says... #38

Nope, they wouldn't sympathize with her. Genocidists don't get a lot of sympathy from most people and the Gatewatch, aside from possibly Lili, is no exception. Lili might thank her for giving her all those zombies to work with, but that's it. And if that meant splintering the group and having Lili go off on her own because she didn't condemn Nahiri, then so be it.

But Ajani, Gideon and Nissa at least wont stand there going "oh were so sorry Sorin was a dick to you. That completely justifies what you did!" And i doubt Chandra or Jace would either. Your bias towards Nahiri reaches absolutely ridiculous degrees, man.

March 13, 2017 1:54 a.m. Edited.

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