Elspeth for Theros

Lore forum

Posted on July 12, 2013, 1:49 a.m. by Jay


Fancy that

chrishuffman95 says... #1

I'm more excited about this then I should be. Elspeth has always been one of my favorite 'walkers. Wonder how she'll be interpreted this time around.

July 12, 2013 1:58 a.m.

Stone_Munkee says... #2

If she returns either in any of her current forms, or another form, I AM EXCITED!

July 12, 2013 1:58 a.m.

tempest says... #3

Ooh. Now I can't wait for theros to come out :P. It looks like a new picture, so it will probably be a new versions.

July 12, 2013 2:23 a.m.

Unforgivn_II says... #4

Nice, Elspeth is awesome. I don't have any of her, but I want some... She was the mythic I wanted from Modern Masters, not my Sword of Light and Shadow

July 12, 2013 2:49 a.m.

Demarge says... #5

We then find out that she was corrupted by phyrexia and became a servant of Elesh Norn.

July 12, 2013 2:55 a.m.

chrishuffman95 says... #6

D: Nope. Not okay with that. Although it is perfectly reasonable Phyrexia would try to influence other planes. Though I'm sure it'd be one we've already visited

July 12, 2013 2:59 a.m.

Demarge says... #7

Well story wise it's the only logical conclusion I can think of that would not only explain elspeth leaving new phyrexia (threatening to spread phyrexia to other planes) and Elesh norn getting some flavor text in m14.

July 12, 2013 3:06 a.m.

chrishuffman95 says... #8

That's only one card that has her flavor text, but I do findit quite interesting that they would choose that... It seems to imply her moving to a new plane. But no matter. I still feel that Elspeth is a champion of justice, and Elesh taking control of her would leave some physical form, as it does on all Elesh's minions.

July 12, 2013 3:11 a.m.

Krayhaft says... #9

Planeswalkers can't be phyrexianized, so I think elspeth is safe. The story's kinda funky at parts, but planeswalker sparks protect their owners from the oil that corrupts.

I doubt wizards would do such a thing though. To reveal that Elspeth brought the phyrexian oil to Theros would detract from the point of Theros. People would be like "ooh phyrexians are back" and wouldn't pay as much attention to the actual worldbuilding of Theros.

July 12, 2013 8:15 a.m.

raithe000 says... #10

First, Darksteel has only ever been found on Mirrodin, so assuming the Darksteel Forge quote is actually about the forge, Elesh Norn is still on Mirrodin.

Second, Gideon left Zendikar searching for help. It's possible that Elspeth is doing the same thing.

Third, its unclear if a planewalker can be compleated and remain a planewalker, considering how transferring Venser's Spark into Karn freed Karn from the oil.

July 12, 2013 8:24 a.m.

Goody says... #11

I think that Elspeth will be a Phyrexian, the Eldrazi will arrive, Slivers will attack, and the planes will collide, all within Theros block.

July 12, 2013 8:36 a.m.

Krayhaft says... #12

The lore is really janky, because for the longest time it was accepted that planeswalkers were immune to phyresis, due to basically all of the invasion story arc.

It seems that wizards has forgotten about it and retconned it, and are going with the concept that PW's can be infected. Which is really stupid, magic has a lot of lore behind it and it's all very deep and well-thought out, much more so than the stories they put out these days.

Even so, iirc Elspeth and Koth both got "immunized" by Melira, Sylvok Outcast , so they're doubly immune now?? The lore is foggy.

July 12, 2013 8:45 a.m.

Krayhaft says... #13

Also Goody, the phyrexians, eldrazi, and slivers are all small fish compared to Yawgmoth, who created the phyrexians, masterminded a multimillenia old arms buildup solely for the purpose of invading Dominaria, and whose very appearance on the plane caused millions to die on the spot. And he wasn't even a planeswalker.

July 12, 2013 8:48 a.m.

Goody says... #14

Ok old Yawgy can join the party too

July 12, 2013 10:22 a.m.

tempest says... #15

Nope. Yawgy died

July 12, 2013 10:30 a.m.

Krayhaft says... #16

I yearn for the good old days when planeswalkers were actual badasses, not the lame weaksauce walkers we get today.

July 12, 2013 10:32 a.m.

x754 says... #17

But Krayhaft, Venser died of phthisis, not phyresis, and Karn was not a planeswalker when he arrived on Mirrodin because he had just sacrificed his spark to help close the Tolarian time rifts - thus leaving him vulnerable to phyresis.

So planeswalkers are indeed immune to phyresis.

July 12, 2013 11:49 a.m.

GreatSword says... #18

I'll bet Urza, Volrath, and (Random Kamaigawa Character) show up too.

Man, Theros is going to be awesome!

July 12, 2013 12:13 p.m.

Krayhaft says... #19

Scars of Mirrodin block was really janky plot wise, because it presented a ton of continuity errors.

  • You're right x754, Venser was infected with phthisis, which is not the same as phyresis, but he died by teleporting his heart into Karn, thereby giving Karn his own spark. This by itself is really shady, since before this the spark was defined as not being attached to a biological part

  • Planeswalkers, by all logic and history from lore, should be immune to phyresis, but only from the oil. The corruption oil is a part of the process of phyresis, but it's not the only way. They can still be phyrexianized surgically, but this would probably destroy that spark. Planeswalker sparks are assumed, by lore, to protect their owners from corruption from phyrexian oil.

However, apparently this is not true. Here are two articles explaining this whole train wreck. Apparently it was retconned by creative, so that planeswalkers aren't immune to phyresis. The whole business is shady.

July 12, 2013 12:15 p.m.

The Wizard is disappointed in Wizards way too many planeswalkers are being printed.

July 12, 2013 12:20 p.m.

Krayhaft says... #21

Also it should be noted that the heartstone that served as Karn's heart was also his brain, containing the memories of him, Urza, Gerrard Capashen, and the other Weatherlight crew.

So when Venser swapped out the heartstone with his own heart, he not only took away Karn's heart but his brain as well. Weird.

July 12, 2013 12:33 p.m.

sabrepaisan says... #22

The nature of the planeswalker spark was altered during the mending thus the new "neo-walkers" and nicol bolas looking to get his powers back to even close to where they were (the whole plot od alara). It would make perfect sense that after the mending, planeswalkers are no longer immune. Although melira immunizing elspeth and koth should be enough to say that elspeth wasn't turned.

July 12, 2013 12:44 p.m.

10vernothin says... #23

.... so Melira is a planeswalker in secret.

July 12, 2013 12:56 p.m.

Krayhaft says... #24

You know, this belongs in the Storylines section.

....if we had one.

It'd be really cool if we had a whole subforum just to talk about mtg lore.

July 12, 2013 2:31 p.m.

The Wizard believesTuk tuk will rise from the flames with the spark to smite all walkers who stand before him, for he is a great explorer.

July 12, 2013 2:36 p.m.

sabrepaisan says... #26

I totally agree Krayhaft. And ive even done a little more storyline reading today and based on what ive found, planeswalkers may no longer be immune to to being "completed". And melira MAY have a latent planeswalker spark too. Doubtful, but possible. But there've been a couple from that plain already like glissa and koth. However back to the matter at hand, i still dont think elspeth fell to the phyrexians. She may be gathering allies, or left (like she always does), or this block also might not fall in line chronologically.

July 12, 2013 3:22 p.m.

Krayhaft says... #27

Elspeth being on Theros isn't farfetched, it's a pretty reasonable speculation. That said, I doubt she's been infected, having been immunized by Melira (though in my headcanon, PW's should be naturally immune to it, but w/e).

From a marketing perspective, it would detract from being on a new plane. People would see it less as "ooh Theros an original plane" and more as "oh shat phyrexians b all up in dis plane wuts it name egin".

But, how cool would this be?

Elspeth, the Compleated 4WW

+1: Put a 3/1 artifact soldier creature token with first strike named Porcelain Legionnaire onto the battlefield.

-2: Destroy target nonartifact creature.

-6: Destroy all other permanents except for artifacts and lands.

July 12, 2013 3:42 p.m.

Formortiis says... #29

I yearn for the good old days when planeswalkers were actual badasses, not the lame weaksauce walkers we get today.

Then I'm sure you're probably a fan of Nicol Bolas as (at least as far as I know) he's hatching god knows how many plans throughout the multiverse so that the planeswalker sparks return to the way they were before the Mending. He's also pretty pissed about it, too.

July 12, 2013 5:44 p.m.

Having read that Examiner article:

Elspeth as G/W... And she appeals to tokens...

Selesnya fans, could this be your long-awaited Planeswalker?

((Though I doubt it, I don't see a story-related reason to her going 2-colored))

July 12, 2013 6:05 p.m.

Jay says... #31

Unless Glissa purifying her made her GW...

July 12, 2013 6:07 p.m.


And I doubt that would happen, but it is indeed a possibility

July 12, 2013 6:19 p.m.

Jay says... #33

Oops Melira

Too many green ladies to keep track of

July 12, 2013 6:21 p.m.

tempest says... #34

being a selesnya player, i still would not want elspeth to go selesnya. i would like it if she stayed monocolored

July 12, 2013 6:47 p.m.

Hey everyone, quick PSA:

I'm moving this thread to the new Lore forum (courtesy of a few users' requests) because it seems to be about the story more than any speculation.

You can use this forum to discuss any details about Magic lore, but I'd like to keep speculation confined to the General forum.

July 13, 2013 1:20 a.m.

This discussion has been closed