Khans of Tarkir Prerelease

Limited forum

Posted on Sept. 1, 2014, 5:32 p.m. by lookoutimscary

So, Khans of Tarkir looks AMAZING. I know I will definitely be going to the prerelease. But I, and maybe some of you do too, have a dilema; what clans should I choose? I personal love the Temur colors (RUG) but I don't think that their mechanic (Ferocious) is very good in a limited setting. In terms of best limited mechanic, i'm leaning towards Mardu. Aggro swingy decks are very much a thing at prereleases and the Raid mechanic seems to support that well.

So i'd love to hear what clan you guys are going with and why, maybe it'll help me and some others make our decision. Thanks!

TheNinjaJesus says... #2

Temur all day long

September 1, 2014 5:40 p.m.

lookoutimscary says... #3

TheNinjaJesus: Yeah, but again Ferocious just seems hard to consistently achieve.

September 1, 2014 5:42 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #4

I'd like to see the rest of the set before I decide.

September 1, 2014 5:42 p.m.

lookoutimscary says... #5

GoldGhost012: Good point, but solely based on clan mechanics, which would you choose?

September 1, 2014 5:44 p.m.

I am going Jeskai because that is what I play when I cant go Grixis. Prowess could be pretty good in limited to bluff combat tricks and what not. I think Abzan will be the best, though. Outlast is a wonderful ability that turns early game beaters into competent late game threats

September 1, 2014 5:44 p.m.

lookoutimscary says... #7

CommanderOfBolas: Yeah I took a closer look and i'm really leaning toward Azban now, Outlast is definitely stronger than it seems in limited I think.

September 1, 2014 5:48 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #8

Probably Mardu or Sultai.

September 1, 2014 5:51 p.m.

cklise says... #9

Azban, all the way.

September 1, 2014 5:51 p.m.

GoldGhost012: Sultai? Really? No offense, I just wouldn't have gone with that. I guess if we see more cards that can fill your graveyard it'll be a lot better.

September 1, 2014 5:55 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #11

Abzan in limited. The outlast first strike guy is silly. Also a 4/4 life linker isn't bad in that kind of format.

September 1, 2014 5:57 p.m.

TheNinjaJesus says... #12

See, Temur is probably going to be the best clan from a constructed perspective... it's not too tough to get 4 power creatures out consistently with the ramp from red and green. Prerelease I'd say... Jeskai. Load up with cheapass spells and just fire off three to give your creatures +3/+3 til end of turn, above and beyond whatever the spells themselves give.

September 1, 2014 5:57 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #13

TheNinjaJesus I think wizards will be careful to not print loads of non creature spells in order to stop prowess being stifling good. If they printed like a lot of 1 mana blue cantrips, we'd be in a lot of trouble.

September 1, 2014 5:59 p.m.

ChiefBell: Yeah, Azban Guide looks really good, and at Common we're likely to see at least one of them. I really hope there's some good fixing because otherwise these three-color decks are gonna be hard.

September 1, 2014 6 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #15

I like the strength of Raid on its own, and I think it may be the most powerful outside of Outlast, and Delve really appeals to me for some reason. Ferocious and Prowess seem the weakest to me and for some strange, irrational reason I find myself hating Outlast. I don't know why.

September 1, 2014 6:02 p.m.

GoldGhost012: I'm totally with you on the Delve train, i'm stoked that it's back. I just don't see it being very good in Limited is all

September 1, 2014 6:07 p.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #17

I am feeling the Abzan Houses colours and some of their splashy rares (Duneblast and Ivorytusk Fortress just seem cool), but I'm not sure how successful I will be with Outlast; the sorcery speed makes it balanced but seems counterintuitive, as to use it you have to give up blocking privileges when most clans around them will be more aggressive. I'm sure they'll do fine, the colours are too good to resist (I was an Orzhov/Golgari guy in the Ravniwars) and again...POSSIBLE ELEPHANT FORTRESS!

If all the Abzan packs were out for some reason that day, my second choice would be Sultai. I just love the graveyard and resource manipulation, and Delve is a good mechanic.

September 1, 2014 6:13 p.m.

Servo_Token says... #18

I'm going Sultai at the prerelease. It, along with Abzan, are the clear control clans in the block, and I just feel that Sultai does it better. Abzan seems more midrangy, but has access to the spoiled sweepers. Sultai just seems good at killing things then doing stuff with their bodies. Plus, the Charm is amazing in every way shape and form.

September 1, 2014 6:16 p.m.

Man, you guys are making such good points, it's getting harder to choose! I've got a big life decision to make..

September 1, 2014 6:18 p.m.

Named_Tawyny says... #20

I'm strongly leaning towards Abzan, but haven't ruled Temur out yet - it really depends on the types of creatures that come out. (plus: Ivorytusk fortress just works so prettily with Outlast).

I'm not so hot on Jeskai for limited though. Most limited decks tend to be creature heavy - upwards of 40% of the deck (with land making another 40%). The combat trick is nice, but I can't see playing multiple combat trick cards in a turn. I could be wrong though.

September 1, 2014 7:03 p.m.

jonhydude says... #21

For the horde!

Mardu all the way.

September 1, 2014 7:20 p.m.

TexasDice says... #22

I will punch every single bear I can find.

September 1, 2014 7:33 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #23

Good luck. Hopefully those bears won't punch you back.

September 1, 2014 7:37 p.m.

TexasDice says... #24

I'm atleast a 2/3-

They can try.

September 1, 2014 7:38 p.m.

TheNinjaJesus says... #25

I gotta tell you, it does sort of boil down to promo card for me.

September 1, 2014 7:38 p.m.

Rhinowarrior says... #26

@ TheNinjaJesus good luck! There will be 40 possible promos! Each clan pack with a chance of getting you're very own khan. i personally will play abzan i think. perhaps mardu or jeskai. They all intrigue me a great deal but ultimatley abzan is just a beast with outlast!

September 1, 2014 10:51 p.m.

Named_Tawyny says... #27

Man, I really wish I wasn't working all weekend. If ever there was a set to spend all weekend at the LGS, doing pre-releases, this is the one.

Still, hopefully we're organising a midnight round.

September 2, 2014 12:22 a.m.

Another thing, Jeskai has seems to have really good evasion which is important in limited.

September 2, 2014 7:20 a.m.

So Anafenza, the Foremost totally hoses Sidsi, Blood Tyrant and Sultai in general.

September 2, 2014 7:21 a.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #30

@Named_Tawyny: Jeskai would ideally solve that problem by having noncreature token producers. Raise the Alarm style cards, for example, or other noncreature spells that make tokens to replace the creature spells.

September 2, 2014 9:45 a.m.

TheNinjaJesus says... #31

With See the Unwritten spoiled, I'm Temur all the way now. It may not win at Limited, but it will give me the stuff I'm most likely to play at FNM.

September 2, 2014 11:31 a.m.

TheRedDude says... #32

Mardu, as it gives access to jeskai and abzan and has a mighty swell khan.

September 4, 2014 8:11 p.m.

TheRedDude says... #33

Of course, i am loyal above all to the Jeskai Way!

September 5, 2014 7:54 p.m.

WovenNebula says... #34

And I will be the sole troller playing mono blue and copying your hard worked mana intensive spells.

alt text

Da da daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Beware "Island" has spoken!

September 6, 2014 1:10 a.m.

nighthawk101 says... #35

I can't truly decide until we see the promos (aren't there 15 or something?) and the rest of the set.

But for now... Azban.

September 6, 2014 12:38 p.m.

jnbkill says... #36

I plan to play Temur in the pre-release. Not for the Ferocious mechanic but to have access to Raid and Prowess, plus some mana-ramp capabilities (hopefully).

Ferocious isn't a bad mechanic but it is definitely mid-late game. Just as you hinted at, its dependency on power 4 or greater means you won't be able to really build on it until turn 3+, at least. That can be your downfall if playing an aggro deck so you need to be able to use a different mech until then.

Delve is a great mech but it's not well suited to limited. It really needs a constructed deck where you can utilize it to its full ability. Shambling Attendants and Necropolis Fiend are great delve cards but, in limited, are very costly and won't be aided as much by the graveyard.

Outlast is a cool mech and looks like it carries a lot of power but it has 2 big flaws. 1) it requires your creature to tap. 2) it can only be done as a sorcery. The first flaw uses your mana and leaves you without a blocker (except, I know, in the case of Herald of Anafenza ). You won't be able to play another card from your hand and you lose a turn to attack. That renders an aggro-style impotent. This could be forgiven if it wasn't for the second flaw which means you have to do this all on your turn. That's very anti-control since it leaves you without the ability to protect yourself with blockers or counterspells. I understand the argument that it was done in order to make it balanced but it rendered the mech as ineffective as Inspired from Theros block. Nobody I've played ever used the Inspired mech.

Raid is a great ability and, I agree, will be the most used mech in limited. An example, you attack with at least one creature, then play Mardu Warshrieker which gives you 3 mana (R/W/B) cuz of raid, and then play a creature for morph cost, or play something like War-Name Aspirant which also benefits from raid. It won't help with haste creatures, but that's the balance. Also, it's a great teaching mech cuz it makes you hold your mana until the second main phase. Many new players don't do that.

Prowess is probably my favorite mechanic. Creatures with prowess come out with low mana cost, like Jeskai Elder or Jeskai Windscout , and get bigger when you play support. Not just support but any noncreature spell. This beats the pants off of Heroic and Evolve. You play a kill or counter spell, they get bigger; a pump spell, they get better; an enchantment, artifact, planeswalker...they get bigger. That makes Dragon-Style Twins a huge bomb that could take out 4/4 creatures, without being lost, after one spell. You could swing with Prowess creatures, then throw an instant during combat and pump them all. The biggest downfalls that I see with Prowess, and why it's not as dependable in limited, are it suffers more late-game since you need time to build them up, and limited tends to be a high-creature-low-support format (17 creatures, 5-6 support cards recommended).

As a final note, especially since this post went on much longer than I initially anticipated, is that most of the cards people are referencing are rares or mythics. We aren't going to see too many of those in limited. There will be bombs but there's a high chance it won't be cards you want or can use. People will try to force a card in, like putting Sorin, Solemn Visitor in a Jeskai deck, which will only hurt the overall performance, so it's best to look at what the commons and uncommons offer.

September 6, 2014 3:19 p.m.

TheRedDude says... #37

long comment man

September 6, 2014 4:42 p.m.

jnbkill says... #38

I know. TL; DR lol

September 6, 2014 6:43 p.m.

Rayenous says... #39

Although not all the cards are spoiled yet, I find SvensaMagic to be a great site for opening sample sealed pools. (From link, click on "Oppna en Sealed pool!") - This helps greatly in deciding what color/clan/guild, etc. to pick.

They usually have the option to select which color/clan/guild, etc you want to try... but I guess that can't do that until they discover what the Clan promos will be.

Also, currently, as there are still many cards not yet spoiled, the packs are noticeably off... when opening a single pack ("Oppna ett booster!") you regularly get from 6 to 9 land, because a large number of spoiled commons and uncommons have been land.

Shortly after full spoilers, this will be a great site for testing clan options and looking at random Sealed pools.

September 9, 2014 1:22 p.m.

Dalektable says... #40

I plan on playing Mardu, because I want to build aristocrats 2.0 and beat face. Also it just looks insanely good and aggro-y.

September 9, 2014 9:24 p.m.

TheRedDude says... #41

Temur Jeskai Abzan khans are all awesome... Im choosing Mardu

September 10, 2014 7:14 a.m.

Yeah, I'm with you guys! FOR ZURGO!!

September 10, 2014 7:23 a.m.

OP_Magikarp says... #43

I honestly like morph the best of all the mechanics even though it is utilized in every clan. Temur definitely has the best future for morph so far so I'll definitely be running with the frontier at the pre-release.

September 10, 2014 8:03 a.m.

Rayenous says... #44

With all but 1-2 of the rares spoiled, I'm trying to figure out what 40 cards could possibly be the Clan promo cards. - Some clans only have 8 rares. (Note: they require the clan logo watermark, or they are not "Clan Cards")

8 from each, including:
1 - The Khans
2 - The Ascendancy
3 - The 5CMC creature cycle
4 - Another cycle of fairly powerful creatures
5 - A Cycle of 3 color spells.
6 - Mono color Creature/Enchantment
7 - Mono color Creature/Enchantment (not same color as 6)
8 - Mono color Creature/Enchantment (not same color as 6 or 7)

Most clans have cards that work for all of the above 8, but Mardu would still need a White Creature/Enchantment.

I'm keeping a list of the possible cards here List - guessing promos.

September 11, 2014 10:56 a.m.

h20 says... #45

im gonna hit them with the duals , and some agressive 4 color build .

September 12, 2014 4:55 p.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #46

Well, with the full set released I'm looking forward to Abzan. I like Archer's Parapet actually, it'll block all day like Nyx-Fleece Ram but gets you closer to winning rather than extending your own life span. Costs mana to do, but unlike Outlast it's not restricted to sorcery speed.

That's going to be the awkward thing about playing the clan, the fact that Outlast is sorcery speed. With many creatures with outlast being defensively minded it's slightly anti-synergistic to tap yo fatass blocker to make it bigger; I'll be super happy to get an Ivorytusk Fortress . The cards should be fine though. Many just need to be Outlasted once to set off their global ability, and I like the Drowned Ancestor as a one-drop that gives you something to do if you miss your Turn 2 play. A 1/5 by Turn 2 is defensively solid.

Also...DAT 2/8 MASS-TODON. That is one beefy backside elephant. In fact, black commons really are huge on the behinds this set. Because the colour of decay and ambition is about sitting on your ass and soaking up hits like a zofo, apparently.

September 12, 2014 5:51 p.m.

Ultimaodin says... #47

Prerelease... hmmmm.. 5 COLOUR GOOD STUFF

September 13, 2014 11:23 a.m.

Skraz1265 says... #48

Sultai is actually surprisingly strong in a limited environment if you look at the commons and uncommons available to them. They have great threats which can be played earlier with delve, as well as some good draw and kill that again can be played earlier with delve. Sultai in limited will go for more of a controlling build, I think, but I think it will definitely be stronger than it looks on the surface.

Aside from that, I think Abzan seems very strong, with outlast being able to turn your one and two drops into serious threats later in the game.

Mardu is obviously the best choice for an all-out aggro strategy, and with the right pool it could wreck everything else, but because of it's all-out aggro, it could lose pretty easily to Abzan or Sultai so long as they manage to get out some decent blockers and/or removal early.

Temur and Jeskai both seem kinda bad for limited. Jeskai has potential, with prowess being great for bluffing combat tricks, but it's really kind of a weak mechanic in a sealed format, where you're going to want the bulk of your deck to be creatures or removal. Temur has an interesting mix of counterspells and big stuff, but their commons and uncommons are just sort of weak in comparison with the other clans.

That said, I think this is actually going to be a pretty balanced limited pool, and any clan has a decent chance of winning.

I actually think a two-color deck might be the right way to go, though. white/black green/black and red/white all look like really strong color combos. I feel like blue needs to be in a three-color deck in this format, but it could potentially play well with green or black.

September 15, 2014 10:08 p.m.

EastsideRock says... #49

OK guys I think we should bring in experts' view on the subject. The only I saw so far is this one:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12054

Here's the order in which De Tora ranks the clans for limited;
1. Mardu 2. Temur 3. Sultai 4. Abzan 5. Jeskai

September 17, 2014 2:14 p.m.

eatyourbabes says... #50

What I have collected so far and from all the random pool generations I've done, its a long one so buckle down or skip to the section you want...

  1. Sultai's delve ability utilizes cards in the graveyard and in limited you don't really want half of your library in there. Limited only has 40 cards to work and most of that should be land and creatures so there is all of your potential exiled so you can do one or two delve cost. NEVERTHELESS!!! There are some bad ass Sulati combos though, some of the cards are really powerful and don't require you to mill or exile your own stuff. I think the best ones are the cards that mill or exile your opponents stuff.

  2. Considering that I previously stated and the general rule for limited is that most of your deck should be creatures and land, Jeskai and their prowess ability looks pretty useless then since you wont have that many noncreature spells. I will say though Dragon-Style Twins and http://static.tappedout.net/concept-cards/idylian-become-immense_medium.pngBecome Immense has potential to absolutely crush your enemies and be a one hit KO so I still think that's cool. I really hope to see that melt someone's face this weekend!

  3. Next! In my opinion, Temur looks pretty solid for the pre-release and limited since it has big stuff and plenty of utility. My only complaint is about the mana costs though. I personally prefer lower mana costs to keep gameplay fast and also to avoid unnecesary damage in the beggining of matches; however, cards like Smoke Teller, Temur Charger , and Bloodfire Mentor can help with that early game defense. I like the power and I like the size and I like all of the abilities. My prediction is that this deck will do well this weekend.

  4. Right now I play a Boros deck that I will swap blue in and out of to make 'Merica styled so I do have a favor towards Mardu, BUT I'M TRYING TO BE CLEAR MINDED! Mardu is fast and ferocious, they've got some sweet Raid abilities however I think some of them are a little under powered compared to bigger stuff which there is a lot of in this set. Mardu requires a good pool to choose from and good hands to remain fast so two limiting factors doesn't look to bright for it. BUT! the good news is that you can get a seeded boster for it so with that, some luck, and the fact that limited is a 40 card deck I think it's possible to see some fast hardhitiing mardu decks that in my opinion will win if the person gets lucky!

  5. Out last in this review is.... OUTLAST! (chorus of boo's) Abzan is looking pretty solid in this format and I think it will be the clan to beat in my opinion. Why? simply because they can last long enough to do damage. Yes, the outlast sucks because you pay mana and tap, but some of the effects that effect all creatures with counters are awesome! Mer-Ek Nightblade , Ainok Bond-Kin ,Abzan Battle Priest . I guess what I'm saying here is that they have both early and late game potential, but more importantly they have SYNERGY! People have been saying that throughout this whole thread and I am a firm believer that synergy wins games. Well that and possibly pulling one of the Planeswalkers in your prerelease pack, HAVE YOU SEEN THOSE THINGS?!?!

Anyways I digress... I totally agree with the article posted above me except my rankings would go...1. Abzan 2. Lucky Mardu Pulls 3. Big Temur 4. Non-Delve Sultai 5. Jeskai (they kind of suck)

Big Points To End On...-You need solid commons/uncommons to do well-SYNERGY!-Don't Play Jeskai-40 cards is a totally different beast-Planeswalkers OP-I really want Mardu to do well-Abzan has potential to be over-rated-ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN!

September 17, 2014 11:39 p.m.

This discussion has been closed