Idea For A Format
The Kitchen Table forum
Posted on Aug. 12, 2020, 6:02 p.m. by Reznorboy
Basically, I was frustrated that many decks in MTG in many formats aim to carry out a singular wincon as devotedly as possible. I mean that, whether the deck is proactive or disruptive, it seeks to do exactly one thing as consistently/quickly as possible, and nothing else. That seems somewhat boring to me.
I do not think anger/disappointment should be directed towards those who build those decks, but the creators of MTG, because the people would not create those decks if they were not successful, and the game's design allows those decks to be successful.
Anyway, the format?
My idea was to have the base rules of the Modern/Pioneer format, except that cards all the way back to Urza's Saga were allowed, with other revisions.
Primarily, each mainboard would also have a "phantomboard". Basically, players would play the game with a single deck of 60 cards and a single deck of 20 cards (the phantomboard). The phantomboard can only contain creatures, enchantments, and artifacts, and only one of each card name.
The phantomboard would always be face-down, in any order, and players could play cards in the phantomboard as if they were in their hand, at any time they could play an instant.
Creatures and artifacts that began the game in the phantomboard would not be allowed to be tapped for any reason at any time (could not activate tap abilities), and creatures would not be able to attack or block if they were from the phantomboard. If a card that began the game in the phantomboard would add any amount of mana to your mana pool, it adds none instead. This extends to if it creates a token, or if it is copied, or the tokens/copies create tokens/copies, etc.
If a card leaves the Phantomboard, it can never go back (if a card such as Elixir of Immortality is played, the cards remain in the grave). Additionally, if a card from the Phantomboard leaves the field, it can not go back to the field or hand either, in a similar fashion.
I would also create a ban list.
The concept would be this: Say your opponent is playing a Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis deck. Rather than being able to simply swing with Hogaak a bunch of times, you could play Rest in Peace at instant speed and force them to do something else. If they are playing an artifact deck, you can use Collector Ouphe. The idea is that you can force your opponent to come up with more than one way to win.
I will be welcoming to ideas.
Those are interesting points. I was expecting people to complain that it would be way to Stax heavy, not combo heavy. I could easily ban Grand Abolisher if necessary, however, I can not ban a ton of cards just because they follow a similar gist, I would have to rework the rules.
August 12, 2020 6:23 p.m.
Also, I totally forgot to mention that the Phantomboard could only have 1 copy of each card.
August 12, 2020 6:27 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #5
Yeah, personally I'd be running a list like Grand Abolisher with Thought Lash & Thassa's Oracle for the free win.
The issue, is if you get rid of the combos or the protection, the next best cards will replace them. I'd estimate a banlist of 200+ cards for the combo pieces, and at least a good 40-50 for protection, given the restrictions.
August 12, 2020 6:36 p.m.
I have an idea. It's a bit crazy. Maybe, no effect can prevent when an opponent plays a spell, and if a card says it can't be countered, it can still be countered? Maybe it costs 2 colorless mana to do one of the above until end of turn?
August 12, 2020 6:43 p.m.
Well, I guess my original idea was this: Decks need to have a variety of ways to win, so maybe combo is ok, so a really simple way would be to make this: If a player would lose the game, they instead get some sort of counter. Once they have 3 counters, they lose, and each counter has to come from a card with a different name.
August 12, 2020 6:52 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #8
I don’t understand this format at all. So you’re telling me I’m supposed to build a deck that can win with Hogaak, but you play Rest In Peace and now I’m suddenly playing a Lab Maniac deck? You can see how this is a bit of an issue, right?
Card games are all about consistency, that’s why nobody ever plays more than 60 cards in their constructed format decks.
You seem to hate consistency, which is explained in your “prologue.” This just doesn’t add up with what the MTG game is trying to do.
August 12, 2020 6:53 p.m.
My first idea for a deck was a Boros deck that would use white to shut down everything people could do, and then red to double damage, prevent life gain, etc.
August 12, 2020 6:54 p.m.
I'm not saying that the players shouldn't be able to make their decks consistent, but moreso that they should have to put in more effort than they do in most formats.
August 12, 2020 6:56 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #11
The “devoted to one win con” is essentially how all decks have ever been created in the history of any card game. Your deck only really works if all of the cards in your deck are working towards one goal.
I can’t be playing a burn deck with only 1 lightning bolt, while also playing a mill style deck with only one copy of Glimpse the Unthinkable. Their just aren’t enough cards in the deck. Your deck has to be dedicated in order to achieve positive results.
I hope this makes sense
August 12, 2020 6:57 p.m. Edited.
I mean that decks should have back up plans. I don't think there should be a Hogaak deck that transitions to Lab Man per se, however, maybe something like this: The Hogaak deck gets Rest in Peace'd, and switches to an aggro/beatdown strategy that does not involve graveyard usage
August 12, 2020 7 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #13
Isn’t that how it typically shakes out now, anyways? If you play Rest In Peace, and I’m playing Hogaak I have to adjust no matter what.
August 12, 2020 7:02 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #14
I’m really not trying to be a jerk, it’s certainly an interesting idea, I’m just trying to understand more of what you mean while also offering constructive criticism.
August 12, 2020 7:04 p.m.
Ok. Well, I think that though Modern/Pioneer do have things like, well, the sideboard, they aren't prevalent enough. I think it would be cool if the sideboard were, well, better, more powerful, had a bigger impact, etc. This would cause interactions like Rest in Peace to happen much more often, allowing therefore for more backup plans (I think.)
August 12, 2020 7:09 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #16
What if, instead of a phantom board each player brings, the phantom board was a pre-made 20 card list that both players have access to during the entire game. Still only one of each, but once you take it the other player doesn’t get it for that game.
Also- for modern/pioneer at least 1/2 of your games are including a sideboard, anywhere from 50-66% of gsmes are post-board
August 12, 2020 7:16 p.m.
Like, have you ever played a game, and then you sideboard the PERFECT card against someone's deck, used it, and it feels awesome?
What if every game could be like that, except your opponent has the same sort of stuff up their sleeve too?
August 12, 2020 7:17 p.m.
That's an interesting idea, to have very limited access to what could be in the phantomboard which definitely aids the issue of combo becoming too prevalent. I also think that a 20, even 30 card list is, well, too limiting. I'm not sure what the solution would be (right now).
August 12, 2020 7:20 p.m.
I also think that the game would be more interesting if you did not know what your opponent was going to pull on you.
August 12, 2020 7:27 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #20
I mean if the phantomboard is supposed to be specifically for sideboard cards, it’s really easy to guess which cards are going to be played against you.
If I bring Hogaak, you slam RIP, if I bring Storm, you slam Weather the Storm or Damping Sphere. Your format doesn’t change this, it just makes it possible in game 1.
August 12, 2020 7:29 p.m.
You're making good points. I'll definitely have to think about it some more. What I guess I'm trying to figure out is a way to make more niche, rare, unexpected cards useable in the phantomboard, so that even though your opponent should expect most of what you use, at least some of it will still be a surprise, as well as not resorting to making a super drawn out list that everyone has to read before they can start playing.
August 12, 2020 7:39 p.m.
i feel i'd have to disagree with you on the sideboard not being prevalent in modern (i don't play pioneer so i won't speak to it). decks have to put a lot of thought into how viable their game plan is post sideboarding. it's just that most of the time it's easier to side in answers to the opposing hate compared to switching up your deck play style. taking the example of burn. usually burn decks aren't exactly 40 Lightning Bolts! they are playing Monastery Swiftspear. so if the opponent drops a Leyline of Sanctity, they will 'switch' up their game plan to using bolt on blockers to keep a path clear for their own creatures. depending on the colors the decks also usually side in Skullcrack type of cards (or even mainboard if your meta is heavy on lifegain). some decks do have sideboards that allow them to switch up their style a little bit. splinter twin used to be able to side out it's combo entirely for other cards when they felt that the opposing match up wasn't conducive for it. but most decks that have 'back up' plans, have them in the mainboard. such as abzan combo decks. yes they can win with one of the myriad of combos in the color but usually the creatures are all good on their own and if they don't get their pieces or the pieces are taken out they can grind out value and go for midrange beat downs.
for the most part it's a bad idea to have cards that don't all work towards the general goal of the deck. these examples are all of cards that still are working towards the same overall goal of the deck. so if you want to encourage people to have more varied cards in their deck, you'll need to to give them a reason to do so. as it stands the phantomboard is just more readily accessible cards for your deck. People still don't have any incentive to not just play the same types of cards they would put in their regular deck.
August 12, 2020 8:46 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #23
So...legacy but you get to play with a randomized sideboard? Am I not following or do you get to start the game with a 27 card hand?
August 12, 2020 9:12 p.m.
GoblinElectromancer says... #24
Great idea sounds fun!
So... Basically I play a turn one Drannith Magistrate every game and win by stax?
SynergyBuild says... #2
This makes sense, however I still feel like just a random two-card combo and a ton of combo protection like Grand Abolisher would do.
August 12, 2020 6:14 p.m.