[Community Discussion]: Frontier Chat

The Kitchen Table forum

Posted on Dec. 22, 2016, 8:21 a.m. by EpicFreddi

This thread is dedicated entirely to Frontier. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!

Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.

This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.

This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.

Atony1400 says... #2

Cool!

December 22, 2016 8:26 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #3

I wanted to keep the startingpost clear of distraction, so I'll just double post. Fight me.
I'm very intruiged by the format given it's brewing potential. I'm sure it will consist of like 50% Rhinos, but they options are very great. For example, I built a 0-Drop-Storm deck the other day, as well as a sweet Jund Dragons list.
I hope the format doesn't get solved so fast and also gets a banlist very quickly. Tresure crusin' is too stronk.
Edit: Scrap that first sentence. Damn you.

December 22, 2016 8:28 a.m. Edited.

Epochalyptik says... #4

Stickied. Gonna feature this, too, so it gets some attention.

December 22, 2016 9:17 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #5

Thank you. :)

December 22, 2016 9:24 a.m.

primtj17 says... #6

I think this format is really fun. I've only played about two or three games, but it has been great. I have no doubt that in time there will be a very defined tier one, but until then there is a lot of good brewing. I mean, I managed to freaking win a game with Hedron Alignment. How much jankier can you get?

December 22, 2016 9:27 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #7

I think my storm deck can jank along with you. :P

December 22, 2016 9:35 a.m.

amhood says... #8

I'm excited about this format. I play in all formats: Burn or Abzan: Modern, D&T or Reset Tide: Legacy, Rhys the Redeemed: EDH, Various: Standard, Now it's time to start frontier!!! Something new that I can let my creative mind work. I've been looking at doing U/R Artifacts, Jeskai aggro/burn, or what not. So, yea if anyone wants to brew send me a message and we can come up with some awesome deck. I've played standard competitively since Gatecrash (casually for years before) So, I feel I have a pretty good grasp on decks and what could be put together. Lets start brewing!!!

December 22, 2016 10:58 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #9

Speaking of brewing.. could we do dredge/selfmill Reanimator?

December 22, 2016 11:06 a.m.

JDMCRIB says... #10

EpicFreddi I mean, there are definitely pieces for the strategy in the format: Scrapheap Scrounger, Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, Haunted Dead, Prized Amalgam, Satyr Wayfinder, etc.

I'm also really interested in this format, but I don't know how diverse the metagame is right now. What are some of the bigger decks in Frontier at the moment?

December 22, 2016 11:30 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #11

I usually don't like linking to other pages, but Mtggoldfish has a great breakdown of the meta.
Also we should brew Sultai reanimator.

December 22, 2016 11:33 a.m. Edited.

beakedbard says... #12

I'm just loving the fact i can make a prowess deck the way i've always wanted to things always rotated out when new things came in so it was never quite perfect in standard.

December 22, 2016 2:23 p.m.

Wizno says... #13

@ EpicFreddi: I've actually brewed up a fun Sultai Reanimator deck! The graveyard value in Frontier is insane unless someone is playing Tormod's Crypt, Anafenza, the Foremost, or Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet.

While I'm uncertain about the future of the format, I've never had so much fun brewing as I have for Frontier. I've made Jeskai Burn, Goblins, Reanimator, and just finished an infinite Thopter/Thopter tribal deck. There's a lot more to work with than some people give the format credit for.

December 22, 2016 3:42 p.m.

Runlue says... #14

I can finally bring back my Khans goblins deck, and add Goblin Rabblemaster! :D

December 22, 2016 7:54 p.m. Edited.

Atony1400 says... #15

I think Rabblemaster and Goblin Piledriver will be staples for sure, and if Krenko gets a reprint, it's all downhill from there.

December 22, 2016 9:22 p.m.

Sirenfall says... #16

I see too many Jeskai-Green decks. It's starting to get annoying.

December 22, 2016 10:11 p.m.

Femme_Fatale says... #17

Goblin Piledriver has not been good in my playtests. At 2 toughness, he gets chump blocked way too easily. Goblin Rabblemaster is a solid staple because it can keep pressure up and fuel sac effects without doing anything, and becoming a large threat if not dealt with.

I will be doing Frontier articles once Christmas is over. I've got an entire analysis of how manabases should be formed and what is optimal in what colours. I've also brewed about 16 decks so far.

Staples (though keep in mind I have not built every possible deck yet, so have not discovered all the potential combinations):


List of Frontier Sideboard Staples

Frontier* Femme_Fatale

1 COMMENT | 71 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


December 22, 2016 10:15 p.m.

Dorotheus says... #18

I've been playing a bit of Frontier and started streaming it and a few people in the Rogue's Gallery also have, and the discord for the Frontier league is pretty big and dedicated. I have my RW Humans list I'm working on, but my last round of playtesting gave me a run for my money, but before that playtesting was looking pretty good.


Inspectigator

Frontier Dorotheus

SCORE: 1 | 103 VIEWS


December 22, 2016 10:22 p.m.

TheRedGoat says... #19

So I'm a little worried about one main thing with Frontier. Which is what strategies lose/have no support with the restriction to being M15 forward?

Like I know a lot of cards that are considered powerful mill cards aren't in Frontier. Archive Trap or Glimpse the Unthinkable being the best ones I know. Because of this, I honestly would figure that mill isn't capable of being fast enough in Frontier to be viable, but more so, how many other strategies are made unviable because of the speed of other decks out there like Elves or the Ensoul Artifact Aggro builds?

December 23, 2016 1:52 a.m.

Dorotheus says... #20

Are you asking how viable is mill in the format? Or are you asking how fast other decks are?

December 23, 2016 1:59 a.m.

TheRedGoat says... #21

More how fast other decks are really. I've only seen aggro/midrange builds. No type of control or defensive builds. That's only from looking up decks though. Nobody has picked the format up in my meta yet to do any actual playtesting.

December 23, 2016 2:55 a.m.

Dorotheus says... #22

One of the things I see is that the reason that the control decks are still more midrange, is just because the closers are so strong, and there is enough removal, but not enough people have pinned down the meta yet for control to be a really long game, but there are answers for everything. I think mill is possible with Flaying Tendrils and Languish being some of the more premium board control in the format. But I could be wrong. Lots of people playtesting on MTGO as "freeform" and Xmage.

December 23, 2016 3:46 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #23

Wizno I went for Sultai Zombies. My girlfriend helped create the deck.
Sidisi BUG copy

December 23, 2016 8:55 a.m.

primtj17 says... #24

Guys, come on now. With frontier, Hedron Alignment is finally viable!

Okay not really but I've been making it work.



December 23, 2016 9:33 a.m.

brokendwarf says... #25



Starfield of Nyx with Sigil of the Empty Throne

I'm gonna work on making Waste Not better. The one decklist I've seen I didn't think was very good.

December 23, 2016 9:53 a.m. Edited.

Guardians says... #26

I think one of the best decks will be something like this:

3-4 Voltaic Brawler

4 Atarka's Command

4 Monastery Swiftspear

2 Zurgo Helmsmasher

4 Goblin Rabblemaster

4 Abbot of Keral Keep

3 Lightning Berserker

4 Stoke the Flames

And so on, until you can call it Atarka Voltaica

Also, hangarback copter decks could be great, as well as elves

I just can't wait to play 5-color siege rhino

December 23, 2016 12:05 p.m.

Guardians says... #27

Goblins, the rhino mirror mockery deck and 5-color super friends might be fun to play with

December 23, 2016 12:10 p.m.

tangotom says... #28

I'm just getting into the format, so this deck is probably bad, but it seems fun to me in my playtesting.

Archived Tutelage

December 23, 2016 12:14 p.m.

primtj17 says... #29

Right now in standard, I'm looking at making a 4 or 5 color superfriends, and honestly it looks like it might be much more viable in frontier. Thoughts on that?

December 23, 2016 2:35 p.m.

primtj17 As someone who is running a 4C superfriends build in Standard, it's possible, but the landbase is tricky, and 4x Oath of Nissa is absolutely necessary (you will most likely need it in an opening hand). But, from what I can gather from this format, it's pretty much just fun brews right now, so try it out.

Anyways, on my own thoughts of Frontier, I used to think it was kind of dumb, since it would just be dominated by Khans Standard decks, but I'm seeing a lot of creative brews out there, and I like it (I just made up a Mardu Green Sacrifice build myself, something that I had considered during SOI Standard). The only problem I can see with it right now is that since it isn't really supported by Wizards or any competitive organizers right now, it could struggle to gain a player base, but it could certainly grow like Pauper has.

December 23, 2016 2:51 p.m.

WizardLogic says... #31

My current frontier brew is UR Ensoul, I am not happy with where the list is at currently, and I think making it Grixis to take advantage of Scrapheap Scrounger and Unlicensed Disintegration might be the edge I need to make it faster and more resilient.

Actual Frontier talk, the format is very top heavy, and by that I mean there are a lot of Johnnies in it currently, with interest from the Spikes. Once Spikes get ahold of the format and "break it in" it is going to go downhill as brewing goes from a paradise to you need to have mainboard hate for one of 3 decks. Rotation is one of the only ways to fix this issue, especially if they are adamant about not imposing a ban list. DTT and TC are simply far too powerful and give decks with fetchlands a level of consistency that is very hard to overcome. If the format rotates every 2-4 years, then our little brewers paradise stays fresh and exciting, prices stay low, and it prevents the same 3 decks being the must beats.

December 23, 2016 3:46 p.m.

magicarp03 says... #32

Anyone else thinking that there is a way to break Waste Not WIDE open??

December 23, 2016 10:01 p.m.

brokendwarf says... #33

magicarp03 - funny you should mention that.


One Man's Trash

Frontier* brokendwarf

SCORE: 1 | 2 VIEWS


December 23, 2016 10:35 p.m.

Dorotheus says... #34

I have a list also, but it needs work and I'm more focused on my Humans list.
Grixis Waste Wheel Either way, Waste Not is really safe to buy and has a lot of speculation around it.

December 23, 2016 10:39 p.m.

Femme_Fatale says... #35

brokendwarf, sorry, but Starfield of Nyx.dec was never viable in my playtesting. Too slow and too easy to hate out. You have a "Destroy all enchantments" sideboard card after all.

WizardLogic: check this deck out: Ensoul Me Now!. Though please ignore the description, it's an old description I made before a Japanese LGS got the Frontier name popular.

As for other decks that I've considered to be some of my best creations, here they are:

  • Alive in Fire: A life-gain burn deck. Does not use Ajani's Pridemate.
  • counters.dec: A counter central deck: a bit weak to repetitive removal, but gets out of hand really quickly. Also lacks a name.
  • Processed Cheese: A Frontier version of my Processor Peace deck, plenty of decks in Frontier utilize their graveyard, so as a control deck this works wonders.
  • Leg.con: A Frontier version of my Maverick/D&T Coco build The O-Ring Effect. No longer has an infinite combo, and suffers a longevity problem due to lack of lifegain, but is still able to out-tempo anything you do.
  • The Mardu Identity: Lacks a proper name. This is perhaps the best mardu combination I have tested so far. Tokens galore, this deck is resilient to all forms of token hate.
  • A Birth of Darkness: Classic grixis control. Still going through numbers and meta analysis on this one.

I have also built, though won't bother linking:

  • Bant Spirits Coco D&T/Maverick
  • Selesnya Humans Coco
  • Werewolves
  • GR tokens
  • Mardu aristocrats
  • Mardu aggro
  • Enchantments
  • Zombies

Decks I'll build in the future:

  • GR aggro
  • GR rampy
  • Coco Elves
  • RDW
  • Goblins
December 24, 2016 3:21 a.m.

TheRedGoat says... #36

So would it be possible to get an actual discussion going here about instead of just listing of card deck ideas?

Like one thing I'm really wondering about would be things like Tears of Valakut vs Clip Wings for removal specifically against Dragonlord type decks. And similar things I'd guess.

I did have a question on here earlier about the "speed" of most decks and I never got a clear response back from anyone. What is the average game length if you've got 2 moderately skilled players? Or if there isn't an average yet, how could people go about supporting Frontier in their local meta besides just getting people to play? Or if that is the only method, what might be a good way to introduce people to the format?

This is the stuff nobody seems to be discussing right now.

December 24, 2016 10:30 a.m.

pumpkinwavy says... #37

So my lgs has been hosting frontier tournaments for a couple months now and I've had the opportunity to partake in quite a few of them. Here are some of the decks I've seen, sorted by deck type and with a short desripction:

Aggro:

White humans: About 16 1 drops followed by Thalia's Lieutenant and Always Watching

Artifact based aggro: Kind of a combination of the standard vehicles decks right now and the old Ensoul Artifact deck from standard past.

Red aggro: Generally paired with green for Atarka's Command, this deck has powerful aggressive creatures and lots of burn. Can either go for a go-wide tokens plan or the Become Immense + Temur Battle Rage .

Elves: A synergistic aggresive deck that wins off the power of Collected Company and multiple Shaman of the Pack.

All of these decks are fairy weak to Radiant Flames and similar cheap boardwipes.

Midrange:

Assorted Siege Rhino decks: Most midrange decks use the power are a collection of extremely powerful cards all put together into and abzan-based deck. Variants include abzan aggro, red abzan, abzan blue, and straight abzan. There is incredible variety within this archetype, so don't be surprised if you encounter Duskwatch Recruiter  Flip, Smuggler's Copter, Crackling Doom, or Stubborn Denial, but do expect Siege Rhino.

Delirium: Similar to above decks, but rely on the power of Grim Flayer and Ishkanah, Grafwidow and don't play white. They both have lots of removal and individually powerful cards, but vary enough that I decided to include them as a separate archetype.

Dragons: A deck that uses Draconic Roar, Thunderbreak Regent and Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury to pressure the opponent. Some variants play blue so that they can play a control game with Silumgar's Scorn and Dig Through Time.

Use efficient removal spells like Crackling Doom, Murderous Cut and Blessed Alliance as well cards like Disdainful Stroke to combat these decks, because around turn 4 is when they hit their stride.

Control:

Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  Flip decks: The most popular of these are grixis control and jeskai black, which use a combination of poweful removal, efficient cheap creatures, and broken delve spells. These decks capitalise on the cards that would immediately spring to mind when you think of 'broken'. Many complaints of frontier is that jeskai black would dominate with crazy spells, mostly voiced by those who have never played frontier, as this deck is very good but not overpowered.

Pure control: If you want to play under 5 creatures, this deck is for you. Combine counterspells with boardwipes, Dig Through Time and a top end of Torrential Gearhulk. Some variants may play a dragon package for ugin, Dragonlord Ojutai and Silumgar's Scorn.

Fight control decks with pressure + disruption. Unlike the claims of many who say frontier is just a bag of midrange and control is unplayable, the power of Torrential Gearhulk targeting Dig Through Time is undeniable. You can succeed with control.

Combo:

This is where you brew. These are only the combo decks I've seen, and I'm sure you all on tappedout can come up with many more. Here goes:

Aetherworks Marvel.dec: Similar to standard marvel, in frontier you can add Ugin, the Spirit Dragon to the list of powerful hits.

Ascendancy combo: Want to drop your opponent from 20 to 0 in one turn with a flurry of spells? Use the power of Cryptolith Rite + Jeskai Ascendancy with a couple tokens! Fun, but good luck winning a tournaent with a combo this inconsistent, even though you can turbo-Treasure Cruise!

And last but not least, the long awaited...

4-colour rally: In my opinion, this is the best deck in frontier. if you thought you were done playing against Collected Company, well this is just the start. Frontier-exclusive additions include Satyr Wayfinder and potentially Duskwatch Recruiter  Flip.

I may have missed your deck, but this is a quick guide to what you can expect to see at a frontier tournament. Thanks!

December 24, 2016 12:56 p.m.

pumpkinwavy says... #38

TheRedGoat Jeskai black and control mirrors go to time a lot, as do rally mirrors. Fetchlands slow the pace of play, but the format isn't ultra fast nor ultra slow.

I would not suggest either Tears of Valakut or Clip Wings, because they are too narrow and Rending Volley is better anyway.

December 24, 2016 12:59 p.m.

Moonbar says... #39

I have a question, y'all. I have a problem with Frontier, and that problem is the fact that fetches are legal. This makes the land base very expensive if you want it to be good. It feels like this fails to accomplish one of the goals of Frontier, which was to fix some of the problems that modern has. This means that Frontier severely lacks accessibility to people who don't want to spend a fortune on lands but still have a competitive deck. Additionally, Theros isn't legal, which shuts down any good mono-colored decks. So why do you guys like playing it? Is it because of the brewing, and trying to figure a new format? Or do you guys genuinely think that Frontier solves modern's problems?

December 24, 2016 3:58 p.m.

Dorotheus says... #40

If I tried to solve modern's problems, then I might as well try and solve legacy's problems, then I might as well solve Vintage's problems... The real issue is. There are no problems except people want their cardboard to be cheap so they can get it, and then be worth a ton after they get it. Human greed is the problem here. But mechanically there really are no "problems" there are just different flavors.

If the problems with modern existed like people claim, then more people would be playing Pauper because of it's inexpensive entry, but soooo many people discredit the format that it just doesn't gain traction thus keeping prices low, but let me tell you, there are the counter wars that people want in Legacy, the interaction that people claim modern doesn't have, and the pace is anywhere between t3 you died and t20 go to time.

With that said I'm playing Frontier because it's new, it's inexpensive, it's at a great time for me personally getting into mtgo where I play modern in paper and my cards are too expensive to get on mtgo to play. I get to brew, I get to smash face, and I get to try and build a new community with people. How's that?

December 24, 2016 5:09 p.m.

Moonbar says... #41

Dorotheus: That is true. However, I think that there is a better way to get to brew, smash face, and form a community. I like the idea of having a new format to work with that is inexpensive. But having no banlist, no way to cycle out decks and cards, and having an arbitrary and nonsensical cutoff point seems to me like a way to make the format unfun pretty quickly afterward. I get why people like the format, but I feel like people are being shortsighted about what will happen to it. As WizardLogic said above, right now the Spikes aren't in the format yet. As they get into it, the brewer's paradise that it is right now will die off and be replaced with what is happening in Modern and Standard right now.

December 24, 2016 5:23 p.m.

Dorotheus says... #42

Claim there is better, offer no alternative. Weak argument. Cut off point is the same as modern, with the boarder change, not arbitrary. "Spikes" are always in every format, it's in the nature.

Now you can rebutal my other points and not my personal reasons in the third paragraph.

December 24, 2016 5:50 p.m.

I think frontier is a great format. People complain about how modern isn't interactive enough, but all the people who like playing combo like it that way. By making this a go format even there can be a interactive eternal format and a less interactive eternal format that don't need jillion dollar cards everywhere

Also @EpicFreddi working on brewing sultai dredge. I think the EMN 4 Color Emerge decks are a good starting point.

Casting Emrakul is what I want to do in this format right now.

December 24, 2016 6:30 p.m. Edited.

Moonbar says... #44

DorotheusHow about this. Just include Theros block in the frontier format and say that you're open to banning cards if they get too powerful. I think that the format is good, but it has problems that may become more apparent as things develop further. Here are the problems as I see them:

1) Fetches are legal. They are by far the best mana fixing to use and swell the pricetag of all multicolored decks that wish to be competitive.

2) Mono colored decks, while always being viable, have no support from sets meant for monocolored play... such as Theros.

3)There is no banlist, meaning that such cards as Treasure Cruise stay around and get more and more powerful as more sets get printed.

4) The sets don't cycle out, which provokes the problem with eternal formats of cards becoming more and more broken as more cards are printed. This may cease to be a problem later though.

To address your point that "'Spikes' are always in every format, it's in the nature," you are correct. However, the addition of that type of player en masse as may happen to Frontier will inherently change the format. We don't know how yet, but it is something to think about.

I don't think that your hostility was necessary in your response, do you? However, if you want to be like that, at least try to demonstrate your ability to spell past a third-grade level.

December 24, 2016 6:54 p.m.

Guardians says... #45

I think one of the main draws about frontier is all the brewing you can do that can be competitive, the cards that everybody loves to play: Siege Rhino, the Khans, the Dragonlords, Planeswalkers, combining Goblin rabblemaster with goblin piledriver, playing weird coco decks, weird artifact decks, weird panharmonicon strategies, etc. that's one of the reasons why I like it at least

December 24, 2016 7:12 p.m.

_Delta_ says... #46

I want to try a R/B Eldrazi aggro deck of sorts likely for frontier if it becomes popular in my local area and so here is what I came up with for a possible deck. Feedback would be greatly appreciated for this list as I feel it certainly could use some tuning, but I'm not quite sure what to change.


R/B Eldrazi

Frontier* Delta-117

0 VIEWS


December 24, 2016 9:28 p.m.

You guys don't know how badly I want Theros in this format. Just ban Thoughtseize, and everything will be cool.

I wanna Whip of Erebos me some Eldrazis

December 25, 2016 1:22 p.m. Edited.

TheRedGoat says... #48

@SwaggyMcSwagglepants Truthfully you're probably better off going into commander if you want to hit Eldrazi like that. Even if you're wanting to have fun with it. Though I would find it fun to combine the old inspired mechanic with vehicles and see what can happen. Or more over, Magic origin was in after Theros left, so we never got to see Starfield of Nyx work with any really good enchantments. The only problems I really see in allowing Theros is when do you draw the line and allow even older sets?

Delta-117 If you will, please don't just advertise your deck here and ask for advice. It says as much in the OP as well (though I'll still try to check it out myself as I liked the idea of R/B Eldrazi too).

Moonbar As near as I can tell, Dorotheus was never inherently hostile towards you, nor did he/she insult you. The end of your response back to them was however, so please don't say anything more like that. As far as your worries about Frontier go I can see where you're coming from on expenses, but personally I find it hard to believe that Frontier is at the point where every other player is going to be playing the absolute most competitive builds they can make, which are by association very expensive.

Similarly, as a set Frontier has a pitiful excuse for a card pool compared to other formats, so I doubt most have felt a common banlist is needed for newness and "smallness" of the format. Though at the same time the particular sets available, while not inheritantly supportive of mono-colored builds like Theros, do have several options for successful mono-colored decks. For the same reason I mention above, I feel Theros is probably left out just for the sake of having to draw the line somewhere. At least with Magic 2015 we get a solid baseline to work with that doesn't shoehorn any one build just yet. (personally i'd like to be able to brew a defender's "tribal" build, but that'd require going as far back as the first Innistrad block)

December 25, 2016 5:56 p.m.

_Delta_ says... #49

Others have been sharing their deck ideas here TheRedGoat. I was aware for the most part of the opening description, which included:

"Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!"

"This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests."

I was posting my idea for a possible decklist I might do, and it's not like I was spamming deck help requests or anything as is stated above. I was just intending to share my deck idea but on the side I was of course appreciating any feedback towards improving it, of which could be done either here or on the deck page itself. I could have worded it better I see now so it didn't seem as much of that, but it really wasn't my main intention to just simply advertise my deck in particular on here for deck help if that makes any sense. I wanted to share the list for my plans for frontier simply whether or not I received feedback if any. However, in any case sorry.

December 25, 2016 6:17 p.m.

Somnus21 says... #50

I think I might just build G/B Sacrifice. Grim Haruspex with CoCo and Nantuko Husk sounds real fun, plus Turn 4-6 is almost always a kill turn. Not to mention we also get Elvish Mystic to replace either Loam Dryad or Blisterpod.

December 26, 2016 12:49 a.m.

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