Any holes in this new format? Any possible simplifications?

The Kitchen Table forum

Posted on July 7, 2016, 6:38 a.m. by MagicalHacker

So I'm not a huge fan of the current Horde format for a few reasons:

  • Not every tribe has tokens
  • There's nothing stopping someone from making an unstoppable horde deck
  • The horde deck can sometimes hurt itself randomly
  • The flavor feels off, since in a zombie apocalypse, for example, you are not attacking a single person, but the zombies attacking you.
  • Flavor fail: you get to prepare for a horde?
  • All the survivors winning or losing simultaneously is both a flavor fail and a mechanics fail because sometimes team members die, so the better representation in game of what the real balance is would be separate losing.
  • Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and/or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth would be nearly impossible to defeat in an eldrazi horde deck, because to win, you have to get the horde to an empty library, but when you damage the life total, it mills that many cards, which could get one of these guys, resetting the deck.
  • Infinite mana means the horde wins when it gets anything that has a mana dump, so more cards that are unbeatable.

All in all, this current format is the textbook definition of flavor fail AND poor mechanic balance. So I present...

Horde 2.0!

Here are the rules (skip over the parentheses for basic rules):

Horde deck construction:

  • Choose a creature subtype and a plane. The deck is constructed of one of each of all creatures with that subtype printed in a set on that plane and one of each other card that produces a token with that subtype printed in a set on that plane.

Gameplay rules:

  • The players win when the horde has zero cards on the battlefield, in their hand, and in their library.
  • At the beginning of the game, the horde puts cards from the bottom of its library into its sideboard until it has a number of cards in its library equal to 20 times the number of other players.
  • The horde always goes first, but it does not draw cards. Instead, it plays with the top card of its library revealed and can cast that card.
  • These additional actions happen each upkeep: 1. If it is the horde's turn, it adds mana equal to the turn number multiplied by the number of opponents. 2. Flip a coin for each activated ability they can activate in order of what creatures have entered the battlefield, and for each heads, the horde activates that ability and flips again for that ability if it can still be activated. (Noncreatures must activate an ability if able.) 3. The horde casts cards from their deck. (Once a spell that can counter another spell can be cast, mana is taken out of the pool for that spell, it is put into the hordes hand, and whenever an opponent casts a legal target for the counterspell, the horde flips a coin and casts the counterspell if they get a heads; creatures with alternate ways to cast them are randomly chosen which way to be cast.)
  • The horde has no life total, so whenever an effect would check its life total, it checks the number of cards left in its library instead.
  • If the horde would be dealt damage or lose life, put a card from the top of the library of the horde deck into the sideboard. If it would gain life, put a cards from the bottom of the sideboard to the bottom of the library.
  • All creatures the horde controls attack each turn if able, starting with the newest creature. (Any player may block these creatures. The horde attacks the player with the highest total Cmc among permanents they control.)
  • The players' life total is the total of their starting life totals combined. Whenever the players have lost an amount of life equal to what would be one player's starting life total, the player with the smallest total Cmc among permanents they control loses the game. (Lifegain cannot bring them back. This continues for each increment of "starting life totals". If that player cannot lose, the next player with the lowest total of Cmc among permanents they control loses instead.)
  • If the horde has to make any choices, this is how it chooses: Firstly, it wants to make positive effects for itself. For this, it wants to choose the highest cmc card, then the oldest cmc card. Secondly, it wants to make negative effects for opponents. For this, it wants to choose the highest Cmc card, then from the player with the highest Cmc total among his or her permanents, then the newest card. Thirdly, the horde can make choices when it comes to positive effects for opponents or negative effects for itself. For positive effects for opponents, it wants to choose the lowest Cmc card, then choose from the opponent with the lowest cmc total among permanents they control, then the newest card. For negative effects for itself, it wants to choose the lowest cmc card, then the newest cmc card. Lastly, for all other choices, it will make a choice at random (coin flips used for the horde deciding whether or not to do a particular action, such as a may effect; if the horde has to pick the value of X, it is randomized with a d10).

Also, here's a sample decklist:

So here are my questions:

  1. Is it descriptive enough to play a game without a question about rules every other turn?
  2. Is there anything I can do to make it simpler while keeping the flavor and mechanics nearly identical?
  3. Are the any cards that would break the spirit of the format that I should be aware of so that I can adjust the rules appropriately?

Thank you guys!

Jay says... #2

This is like... ridiculously complicated. I feel like regular Horde + house rules is a way easier way to figure out what you don't like (i.e., don't let the Titans shuffle graveyard).

July 7, 2016 11:49 a.m.

MagicalHacker says... #3

I mean, a lot of these rules regard how the horde does stuff, so in terms of rules you actually need to know, there is very little. Like, how you win, how to attack creatures, and maybe how the horde gets mana, but that's it.

July 7, 2016 1:26 p.m.

Dredge4life says... #4

I'm so confused but this looks like so much fun... Can someone link the original rules so I can compare them?

July 10, 2016 10:14 p.m.

MagicalHacker says... #5

Dredge4life, sure!

July 10, 2016 10:40 p.m.

Dredge4life says... #6

@MagicalHacker Thanks.

This looks really fun to try, will need to discuss it with my playgroup. I have no prior knowledge of the format, so sadly I can't give you an opinion based on experience yet. My group and I will try this sometime in the next few weeks, and I'll let you know what our consensus is from a new player's perspective.

July 11, 2016 7:14 a.m.

MagicalHacker says... #7

I'm still tweaking it a little every day, so be aware of that and have the rules open when you play for the best experience. I'm also planning on trying it out with friends, but I want the format to be balanced whether you play it with 4 players or 1 player (so i guess the format should be called goldfish horde?)

July 11, 2016 8:20 a.m.

This discussion has been closed