Will there Ever Be a Creature Version of Warstorm Surge?
General forum
Posted on Nov. 18, 2019, 10:02 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Warstorm Surge is an awesome card, but it relies on creatures to function, making it useless on its own. For that reason, I feel that a creature with its ability would be amazing, and would certainly be great for any EDH deck with Riku of Two Reflections as its general (such as the one that I have).
What does everyone else say about this subject? Will WotC ever print a creature version of Warstorm Surge ?
So realistically that is just kind of what Magic does. In the same way that Wheel of Fortune is on Magus of the Wheel , or that Urza, Lord High Artificer has Tolarian Academy as an ability, or that Beast Whisperer is Glimpse of Nature , it's that simplest way to create something knew without reinventing the proverbial wheel. It happens all the time.
While a creature that is Warstorm Surge on a body might be very powerful, I would thing it would defiantly be an option for them t some point. They may just worry about the synergies that you are thinking about being a bit on the broken side.
Your looking at Riku of Two Reflections , Deadeye Navigator , Conjurer's Closet , Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker , and the like being able to blink this creature for a ton of damage all over the board. It could be easily broken.
Theoretically, it would recognize itself entering the battlefield, and just go off if it wasn't countered.
November 19, 2019 8:27 a.m.
So, imagine this...
Brilecus, Rage-Conduit
Legendary Creature: Warrior Archon
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, it deals damage equal to its power to any target.
5/5
So, we have a creature, who is expensive for a 5/5 with no evasion or protection, but with just the Warstorm Surge ability.
Now lets throw Helm of the Host into the mix.
So he enters the battlefield and triggers off of himself, dealing 5 dmg to something. Then, on the off chance we have Lightning Greaves or some other haste enabler, we equip Helm, swing, make a copy, which then triggers TWICE, for a total of 10 dmg, aside from the combat dmg.
So, now your telling me Riku of Two Reflections is also in play? So, lets use some extra mana to make more copies of the original, again compounding that dmg. The token may die here because it's legendary, but it would still ETB and trigger all instances of the Warstorm Surge effect created from all of our copies
This isn't even considering things that would blink or make other copies.
And bare in mind we have made this Legendary as a downfall to make it more fair.
We haven't even gone infinite here, and we have just about killed the whole table.
November 19, 2019 10:23 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #5
Blade of Selves would be nice with this thought experiment too. Maybe it triggers when another creature etb?
I think it’s possible to be printed, but by itself it’s kinda OP. Especially as a big creature. That’s a loooot of reach in limited.
November 19, 2019 10:10 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #6
DarkHero, there are already plenty of creatures in this game that have abilities that trigger when they enter the battlefield that can be easily abused, so a creature version of Warstorm Surge would not be a major issue for this game, or anything new, at this point.
November 19, 2019 10:20 p.m.
DemonDragonJ I realize that. I'm not say it's impossible or wrong to print. In fact I said I would probably happen eventually in the previous comment, but the hang up on something like that would be the dangers of it's synergy with existing strategies and what format its going to be in. It doesn't have to be game breaking to be dangerously powerful.
The only reason Warstorm Surge doesn't see more play is because it's going to require set up like you stated, with creatures or blink effects. Putting it on a creature, especially if it's worded to trigger itself, shortens that and makes it more viable. It's not unheard of, just really strong.
November 20, 2019 10:19 a.m.
Really your looking at something like "Whenever ANOTHER creature enters the battlefield under your control, it deals damage equal to its power to any target"
This would limit it in such a way that it would be more realistic
November 20, 2019 10:22 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #9
It would probably be a creature at the same cmc if it were a small creature (1/1, 2/2, etc.) or if it didn't trigger off itself.
November 20, 2019 12:52 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #10
DarkHero, MagicalHacker, some time ago, I designed a custom card of such a creature, and posted it on this forum; I made it a 5/5 for a cost of , which is simply a more color-intensive version of the original enchantment's cost, but I realize now that it being a 5/5 would make it too powerful; a 4/4 or a 3/3 would be balanced, but anything less than that would make it too weak unless it had some form of protection.
November 21, 2019 12:10 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
MagicalHacker, please tell me that you are joking, because no creature that is a 1/5 would ever be worth 7 mana, unless it had an insanely powerful ability, and Warstorm Surge 's ability does not qualify for that, in my mind.
November 21, 2019 8:09 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #13
Flametongue Kavu + Warstorm Surge would not equal a 7 mana permanent in my opinion.
November 21, 2019 10:30 p.m.
DemonDragonJ While I don't necessarily agree with the 1/5 for 7 either, you've got to realize how much stronger this effect being on a creature can make it. On an enchantment there is little interaction, as you have noticed based on your forum question. The creature likely will not be any good aside from having that ability. There is a reason that effect isn't popping up all over the place.
If we are saying that exact effect on a creature, I would say even a 2/2 or a 3/1 for 5 or 6 CMC would make sense. I could even see a 1/5 like MagicalHacker said but for like 5 or 6 just because we are talking about the chance of tons of ETB effects if not infinite ETB. Even if it's with no protection. If you added in some kind of protection that could go up.
November 22, 2019 8:20 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #15
DarkHero, I do understand your concern on this matter, but, again, how is this situation much different from the numerous other creatures with "enters-the-battlefield" that can be easily exploited?
November 22, 2019 10:30 p.m.
The power that your talking about and the fact that it would compound on itself is the difference
These are the best comparisons I could find.
Murderous Redcap is a 2/2 for 4, who could be abused, but would need infinite ETB to even be worth it, plus it only triggers off of himself.
Gibbering Fiend is a 2/1 for 2, that only deals 1 damage when it ETB, but to each opponent. Again, would need to be infinite to be relevant, and otherwise isn't good, and only tiggers off of himself
Forge Devil very simply 1/1 for 1, with a 1 dmg ETB, BUT it's 1 dmg to you as well.
Flayer of the Hatebound is a very similar effect, but it's only on very restricted Graveyard ETB effects.
Now Impact Tremors is a great card, but only because it is triggering off of all of our creatures entering the battlefield or potentially going infinite.
To my knowledge there isn't anything quite like what we are talking about, and it's simply because it becomes that much easier to abuse. Most of the commonly abused ones are giving infinite mana, infinite draw, or infinite tokens, which don't win right away. This is direct, compounding damage. Yes there are other things that can be abused,but this would be a unique level of jank.
November 25, 2019 8:29 a.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #17
DarkHero, you do have an excellent point, so I agree that the best way to prevent such a creature from being too powerful is for it to have low power.
For example, I believe that this may be reasonable:
Warstorm Elemental Show
Low power prevents this creature from being too powerful, while its high toughness ensure that it cannot be too easily destroyed. I gave it a lower overall mana cost compared to Warstorm Surge , since 6 mana is simply too high of a cost for a 2/4 creature, but I gave the cost a heavier color weight, since this type of effect is very red.
What do you think of that? Is this a reasonable way to have such a creature?
November 26, 2019 9:18 p.m.
Your on the right track. Like I said It's definitely possible, just matter of making it make sense the WotC so they don't break a format.
November 27, 2019 8:13 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #19
I am wondering; if such a creature existed, and then someone copied it with Rite of Replication , how many times would its ability trigger?
Hjaltrohir says... #2
There already is sorta one in Stalking Vengeance , although that triggers on death rather than entry. Therefore it seems likely that they could print a creature version of Warstorm Surge at some point.
November 19, 2019 5:16 a.m.