General forum

Posted on March 4, 2017, 11:30 p.m. by 20IzzetEngineer00

Seriously, I see this thing EVERYWHERE and I think it's pretty crappy. The max P/T is 8/9 (I think) WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE IT. Could someone help me understand!?

Davik100 says... #2

Gr8 B8 8/8

March 4, 2017 11:34 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #3

It's a reliable, cheap, well-scaling beatstick.

In most decks that can use it, Goyf is a investment that grows quickly without you doing anything outside of what your deck would normally do. In competitive environments, it's typically a 1/2 to a 3/4 on the turn it's played, and it only gets better from there.

The fact that you're maxing out at 8/9 is not really a downside when you consider it only cost you and you probably played it on turn two or three.

March 4, 2017 11:34 p.m.

clayperce says... #4

Epoch already mentioned "well-scaling" but just to pile on: Because it generally gets bigger over time, it's great at any point in the game. That makes it better than most other two-drops, which aren't great late.

March 4, 2017 11:45 p.m.

Harashiohorn says... #5

In eternal formats there is a lot of good removal, and a lot of good non creature things you can be doing. Paying 5 for a Serra Angel just feels bad when the opponent Path to Exiles it on their turn. Tarmogoyf is usually a 3/4 or 4/5 (land, creature, instant, and maybe a sorcery) by turn 3 or so, which means you are getting a creature that can not only fairly quickly kill an opponent if left unanswered, but who also required minimal investment on your part. Tarmogoyf will kill your opponent faster than pretty much any other 2 drop, and has a really easy casting cost. In modern most 1 drops would need at least 8-10 turns to kill an opponent, while tarmogoy asks just 4-5, and thats a big difference. Meanwhile at three mana you could play a card like Liliana of the Veil, or play and equip a Cranial Plating, so just paying 3 for a creature is kinda low impact for all intents and purposes. So essentially Tarmogoyf fits perfectly on the curve where there is not necessarily another card you would rather be playing for that two mana. Tarmogoyf is just a beatstick, but a very very good, and cost efficient one.

March 4, 2017 11:50 p.m.

All right, but what if you have someone running grave hate, or grave recursion? Doesn't it get pretty weak when graves get real low?

March 4, 2017 11:51 p.m.

saj0219 says... #7

20IzzetEngineer00 here's a way to think about it: what size creature do you consider good for two mana? Chances are it's smaller than Tarmogoyf will be when you cast it.

March 5, 2017 12:03 a.m.

KillDatBUG says... #8


It's a 4/5 on turn 2. Why do you think people like Goyf?

March 5, 2017 3:47 a.m.

Yes, graveyard hate hurts decks that play with their graveyards. Also, creature removal hurts people who play creatures, land destruction hurts people who play lands, and counterspells hurt people who play spells.

March 5, 2017 4:21 a.m.

enpc says... #10

The other thing is that most people don't mainboard a lot of graveyard hate, meaning that you won't see the hate until at least game 2. And while delve cards can eat into a player's graveyard, as long as you have as a Fetch, a creature and a sorcery or something like a Tarfire which straight up gives goyf +2/+2 you should be golden.

March 5, 2017 9:16 a.m.

DrLitebur says... #11

I have wondered why, then, by the same token Greenbelt Rampager has not seen play in other formats beyond Standard, and all I can see is possibly because Energy is not a big mechanic outside that format. But honestly, if you look at the card, it may be a better investment, manawise, than the Tarmogoyf, as it is a 3/4 for . The drawback is kinda hard to get around in quick formats like Modern, yes (but maybe Attune with Aether will work), but you then are putting it down turn 2, which is still pretty decent.

I think it may have a place in Zoo, at any rate, but that is just my thoughts.

March 5, 2017 10:06 a.m.

LeaPlath says... #12

DrLitebur It requires you to play a non burn non damage no maniulation land fetching "cantrip" and your pay off is on tur. 2 you get a 3/4. Goyf rewards you for playing natural magic (casting spells, blocking, fetching etc) and can get bigger and latter copies lack the disadvantage of costing effectivly GGG

March 5, 2017 10:17 a.m.

shadow63 says... #13

The cards bad I don't know why these people are defending it. That being said if you pull any you can send them my way and I'll dispose of them for ya

March 5, 2017 10:17 a.m.

DrLitebur says... #14

LeaPlath: I understand that, and maybe it would work better in a landfall-ish deck instead of the burn variety. Landfall has not been a huge archetype in the format, I know, but I thought it would be interesting to use it in such. Maybe I am just dreaming.

March 5, 2017 10:34 a.m.

LeaPlath says... #15

DrLitebur And the landfall pay off is?

March 5, 2017 11:33 a.m.

DrLitebur says... #16

It just depends on what you want to play in said deck. The Retreat cycle can be half-way decent, or if you are willing to play BUG, you can play mill and make sure you get consistent land drops for Hedron Crab.

March 5, 2017 11:40 a.m.

scrotality says... #17

the thing is that there are basically two types of people who play modern: those that want to have fun, and those that want to win. the people that want to win love goyf because it's a huge beat stick that closes out games. there's very little in the meta that really hates it out. even graveyard hate isn't completely effective. those that just want to have fun don't really care about goyf because it's not a fun janky card with interesting mechanics.

March 5, 2017 2:22 p.m.

Harashiohorn says... #18


The key word here is effort. Greenbelt Rampager is intriguing, but ultimately requires effort to put into a deck. That doesn't mean it is bad, I mean Arcbound Ravager is a great creature in modern and it also requires a lot of build around, but it won't be on the same tier as Tarmogoyf, simply because Tarmogoyf is really easy to shove in a deck and forget about. Sure cards like Tarfire synergize well with it, but you could get by fine just shoving the card into your deck without giving it a single piece of support, and that is key to its ubiquitous presence across eternal formats.

March 5, 2017 3:04 p.m.

March 5, 2017 6:47 p.m.

gnarlicide says... #20

Dude, the tarmogoyf is good because you can splash it in any deck and it still provides you, the person who casted it, a sizable "must answer body". Literally, you can splash it in anything. Your vintage deck, modern deck, legacy deck, your carpool to work, family christmas card photos, shrimp gumbo, the gangbang your weird uncle is setting up on craigslist...

there is literally no limit to where you can stick a goyf!

And if you think goyf is still bad... then i can tell you where else you can stick a few of them....

fluffybunnypants... I have returned!

March 5, 2017 7:13 p.m.

enpc says... #21

Without going too deep into the rabbit warren, I think part of it comes down to price. A lot of people don't see Goyf as "bad" but it's more "why would I pay $100+ for one? After all, its just a 2 drop creature"

This is often the line between people wanting to play casually and people wanting to play competiviely. Goyf is the embodiment of a Spike card (as in Timmy, Johnny and Spike). It generates such huge amounts of value from a single body since it can potentially (and ususally does) have such a high damage output from a 2 CM creature.

The problem is that a lot of players don't have the win at the cost of my wallet mentality. If you're in this boat, it can be much harder to understand why this card is so good.

Here's the question though, if money wasn't an issue, would you be running them? And for most people, the answer is yes.

March 5, 2017 7:34 p.m.

DrLitebur says... #22

I am not saying that Greenbelt Rampager is better than Tarmogoyf, not by a long shot. What I am saying is it is a similar card, that could be on par, given the right circumstances. I understand that the Goyf is a very good card, but I also cannot see shelling out $100 per card. I have only pulled one during MM1, but that is about it, and I am not going to worry if I pull anymore. I'd rather get a Lily, honestly.

March 5, 2017 7:38 p.m.


I don't know, I'm not really around often anymore.

March 6, 2017 6:14 p.m.

gnarlicide says... #24

fluffybunnypants, me neither. I got really busy with work. grown up shit.

March 6, 2017 7:56 p.m.

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