Why Are Planeswalkers So Popular?
General forum
Posted on July 5, 2020, 10:48 a.m. by DemonDragonJ
In this Tumblr post, a user asked Mark Rosewater if it would be possible to have a set that did not contain any planeswalkers, but Rosewater responded that planeswalkers are the most popular card type in this game, so such a set would be unlikely.
Why are planeswalkers so popular? Is it because they are so powerful, requiring only a single payment of mana, and then being capable of being used multiple times? I think that they were an interesting addition to the game, but they frankly have warped the game around themselves, and I feel that WotC is not doing enough to ensure that they are not overpowered. The fact that damage-dealing spells can now target them and the fact that there are a greater number of destruction spells that can affect them are both great, but WotC really should never have allowed planeswalkers such as Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Oko, Thief of Crowns, or Teferi, Master of Time (all of whom are blue, by coincidence) to be printed without major adjustments (I personally feel that having a mana cost of greater would have made Jace and Teferi balanced and changing Oko's second ability to a negative loyalty ability would have made him perfect).
What does everyone else say about this? Why are planeswalkers so popular?
Omniscience_is_life says... #3
I also think there's a certain novelty in playing a card with a story behind it, and almost all walkers have great lore, so..
July 5, 2020 1:34 p.m.
grumbledore says... #4
i really dislike planeswalkers personally. what do i know though lol
July 5, 2020 4:27 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #5
Pre-WAR, Walkers didn't see too much play. They were always Control cards -- slow, grindy engines that guaranteed a lategame victory. As such, the good ones were mostly blue.
To be good, a Walker typically had to be able to affect the board as well as interact with either your or your opponent's hand. Liliana of the Veil was good because it was hand disruption as well as fairly good board control. Most playable planeswalkers drew cards or had effective removal, or both.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is good because you get 3 options: Get rid of a threatening creature, taxing them on time and mana; temporarily put the top three cards of your deck into your hand(one of them stays forever though), or make sure your opponent can't draw something good. Notice how his ult is entirely irrelevant.
Pre-WAR, you saw walkers only in very specific archetypes. It was good -- they were powerful cards that got really good in specific decks. Post-WAR, we now have a walker for just about every archetype. Even Burn can run the uncommon Tibalt -- even though it's too slow for modern.
The 36 walkers we got in WAR plus the fact that we are getting 5+ walkers(10+ if you count planeswalker decks) each core set means that we are getting a huge amount of new walkers. In fact, Walkers have taken over the game almost as much as Companions did -- Walkers have just been around longer.
July 5, 2020 4:38 p.m.
Planeswalkers are very popular for casual players as well. Their slow speed to develop is not as big a deal in casual magic.
One of the things planeswalkers do that most other cards don't do is Grow on their own. Beginning the turn you play them, many planeswalker cards become stronger and more game-threatening the longer they remain in play and activate their + abilities. And you don't spend anything to make them grow after the turn you cast them. Adding what can end up being a game-winning threat you dont need to spend mana or other cards on to maintain is very strong in a slower game environment.
Some of them even put constant pressure on your opponents or produce constant threats which allows you the freedom to focus on building your board state, or combo, or whatever.
Card Quality Matters. Planeswalkers, in many cases, are just a better card to play than many others. In formats where turn 5 is not the end of the game, inevitability matters and planeswalkers provide that more than drawing into a Lightning Bolt cor Giant Growth. Compare those two cards to Nissa, Who Shakes the World or Chandra, Torch of Defiance.
July 5, 2020 5:15 p.m.
Darkshadow327 says... #7
I'm a control player at heart. As such, I love Planeswalkers. They allow me to be productive on my turn, while still allowing me to leave mana open for whatever I may be holding in my hand. I also love the versatility that Planeswalker's provide, there seems to be at least one for any deck I care to build.
In the end it boils down to this for me: I find Planeswalkers to be fun cards to play that also happen to fit my style of play very well.
July 6, 2020 3:47 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #8
Everyone here has given great reasons for why planeswalkers are so popular, but is WotC making sufficient effort to ensure that they do not become too powerful? I personally believe that they are not, so I do hope that they soon realize that they need to be more careful about ensuring that planeswalkers are balanced and do not overrun this game.
July 6, 2020 7:37 a.m.
TriusMalarky says... #9
Oh, they've already overrun it. Oko and T3f have been far and away the best cards in the last year, maybe barring breach and Uro.
The problem with walkers is that when one gets absurd, it gets very expensive, and puts the game out of reach for some more budget players.
July 6, 2020 9:27 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #10
TriusMalarky, I personally feel that WotC has a responsibility to keep this game both affordable and enjoyable for the players, which, to me, means reprinting cards frequently and also ensuring that cards do not become too powerful, but it seems to me that WotC has not been taking that responsibility sufficiently serious, recently.
July 6, 2020 5:25 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #11
DemonDragonJ WotC refuses to openly acknowledge the secondary market due to the ramifications it would have for the company (even though they quite obviously exploit it). Also by maintaining the high value of certain cards they sell more packs. For those two reasons they won't work to make every card valueless. On top of that tanking the value of cards by printing them into oblivion would chase a lot of players away from the game.
July 6, 2020 10:41 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #12
DarkMagician is right. WotC can't afford to acknowledge the secondary market -- they'd be immediately blown apart by lawsuits. They also like to abuse it a lot, however, I think the 'hold back on good reprints' phase is coming to a close. Pick any set among ['Mystery', 'M21', 'Jumpstart'] and look at the meaningful reprints. Every single one of them is better than a lot of the Masters sets.
Masters 25 had 20-30 for a twice the price set. M21 had 12, most of which halved their price tag or better. Most of the worthwhile Masters 25 cards were printed at mythic... and many of them were cut by only a few bucks.
Although I would like to point this out: Any player that gets angry when a card is printed to be cheaper is a toxic part of the community. I can see being annoyed when you shell out for shocks and then they immediately get reprinted -- but you lost, what, a hundred bucks or so? In the long run, the amount you spent on those cards initially is going to be worth thousands of people being able to afford them themselves.
Also, if you use trading cards as an investment that is intended to get you more money, you're a jerk. It's a toy. Now, I can see sitting on packs -- it's still gambling, and they will have value for quite a while. But if you intend for your singles to appreciate, then go buy stuff on the reserved list. That's what it's for, is to satisfy the insults-to-the-game that want to use cardboard as stocks and bonds. Leave the things that people actually need to play the game alone. Nobody likes someone who makes a hobby a horrible place for everyone else, and investors(barring ones that specifically sit on packs and no singles) are the epitome of that.
July 7, 2020 10:24 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #13
DarkMagician, I wish to enjoy this game, not treat it as an investment; if I wished to invest in something, I would purchase either stocks or jewelry, and I wish that other players would realize that, as well.
TriusMalarky, I am sorry that I need to ask, but what do you mean by "they would be blown apart by lawsuits?" Why would anyone sue WotC for actually acknowledging the secondary market?
July 7, 2020 1:09 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #14
If WotC acknowledges the secondary market, then they are saying that they know that booster packs are effectively gambling, which they are.
In most states and countries, it's not really legal for people under 18 to gamble(although laws probably differ based on place).
So, if they recognize the secondary market as a thing, then they can easily be under fire by many different states and possibly third parties because they've been illegally giving minors a way to gamble, as well as providing a gambling service without the right permits, for 25+ years.
It'd be like admitting murder -- but there's no statute of limitations because you're still murdering people. So even if you can't be sued for what you did 20 years ago.... you still have 5 years of illegal actions.
It's the same reason Loot Crates are being made illegal in a lot of countries. It's not necessarily news anymore, but Loot Crates came under a lot of fire. TCGs and Trading Cards in general now have to be extremely careful to not get hit in the crossfire. In fact, there's a good chance that in the next few years(might be a while but just wait) all loot crate and trading card type things will be made illegal, or at least illegal for minors, which will kill most of the companies trying to use the pseudogambling system.
On that note, some TCGs will still hold quite a lot of value after the fact. I personally think that, even if WotC dies, Magic will at least continue as a game to be played. Proxies would then be allowed to a larger extent but original cards would be extremely valuable. There's even the chance that someone will purchase MtG from WotC/Hasbro and continue with the brand in a legal way.
Another point I just realized: it's probably a better system to sell product that's exact. Like planeswalker decks. Instead of booster bound sets, they'd have specific decks that contain specific cards, with the possibility of fancy art or borderless or whatnot. It would be easier to please players and you can still make similar amounts of money -- i mean, if everyone wants 4 Ugin and the only way to get it is by getting the one copy in a product, but also there's a chance for full art Ugins, then you're selling approximately 4+ copies of the product per active customer. If priced right, you can definitely be making plenty of money.
July 7, 2020 1:37 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #15
TriusMalarky It's more than just the fact that kids would be gambling, it's also the fact that WotC would essentially be rigging the game by manipulating the value of cards by printing them at different rarities.
abby315 says... #2
I think it's just because they give you something to do every turn.
July 5, 2020 12:29 p.m.