The Reserved List
General forum
Posted on Oct. 12, 2014, 3:07 p.m. by EvenDryke
Because I know how much everybody loves Reserved List debates!
In this case let's not concern ourselves with whether Wizards would or should abolish the reserved list. Instead let's talk about the best way to approach it IF they ever did.
- How much advanced warning would they have to give?
- How should they approach announcing it?
- Should they do away with the entire thing, or just remove certain specific cards from it (i.e. only those played extensively in eternal formats)?
To answer my own questions:
- I think that 6 months to a year would be sufficient. Any more than a year just seems unnecessary, and less than 6 months wouldn't leave enough time for the secondary market to adapt.
- I think that they should acknowledge what the purpose of the reserved list was, and be very detailed in their reasoning behind abolishing it. Some people would be happy with the decision I'm sure, but many others would see it as an enormous breach of trust. Withholding as little information as possible would be in Wizard's best interest in this case. They would surely have to focus on the fact that this would lower the entry barrier to eternal formats considerably (assuming they started reprints fairly soon after), but they should not skate around the potential repercussions for the secondary market.
- It would be pointless to only remove some cards from the reserved list, because removing even one would demonstrate that it is not as sacred as it appears to be. If they were going to remove any, they might as well do away with the whole thing.
VampireArmy says... #3
As long as wizards is okay with the death of legacy as a format over the years, then yeah no real point. I don't agree with the abolishing of it entirely. There are very few cards on that list that would even feasibly be used so reprinting the shit stuff along with the good stuff doesn't sound worth it.
October 12, 2014 4:01 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #4
The issue is, as soon as it is announced that the reserved list will be abolished, then the secondary market will be effected. Prices are high not only because of the current supply, but because of the guarantee that the supply will never go up. No amount of "warning time" will give the customers their money back from their investment.
October 12, 2014 4:14 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #5
Legacy isn't the only format hurting from the reserve list, EDH too.
October 12, 2014 5:04 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #6
The thing is, legacy is basically Unplayable without the land and such...edh works around that
October 12, 2014 5:08 p.m.
vampirelazarus First stating that this ends up with being a debate thread about removing it or not and then stating that it shouldn't be removed is a very good way to get people discuss the very thing the author of the thread didn't want to discuss. A such absolute statement can obviously result in questions as what are your arguments behind that statement and so on.
Anyways, I agree with VampireArmy, removing the entire list would be pointless because you only would want to acquire the good stuff from it. And having a specific warning time would make no good. Sure the prices would drop as soon they announced it but the market would be unable to stabilize until more precise information about the reprint is released. If they would make a very limited product that contained the reprints then the prices wouldn't be affected as much as if they made a massive reprint.
October 12, 2014 5:11 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #8
Yeah.. I just with I could play my ideal 5c scion deck without needing to hold bill gates' kid for ransom. Cause then I get shot repeated by overzealous cops, I have to fight my way through hell for another life, get reincarnated as a dandylion or some shit, kill myself, rinse and repeat until I'm human again, wait until I can speak again, try again. It's such a drag.
October 12, 2014 5:18 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #9
The original printings won't stay down, look at Burning of Xinye . On tcgplayer the P3K is still 150 on average, the FTV is 8. The prices will drop initially because people wanting them for function as opposed to collection don't have to shell out, but can get their needs met. But thr cards won't plummit and ruin an "investment".
October 12, 2014 6:03 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #10
Congratulations, Duck_of_doom, you have the ability to see through thinly veiled attempts to derail threads.
Now, if they did get rid of it, collectors will lose thousands and thousands of dollars, not to mention the company losing the respect of all the old players. Without respect, they'll lose a considerable portion of their player base.
October 12, 2014 6:26 p.m.
The reserved list does need a tweak, (Thunder Spirit would be a good limited card, it would probably be an uncommon now, and it really shouldn't be worth $15.)
October 12, 2014 8:59 p.m.
I want Vintage Masters but hate MTGO....
REPRINT THE POWER NINE!
Nothing wrong with that, right..?
October 12, 2014 9:39 p.m.
I think they should just drop it all together but of corse they will never reprint some cards like any ante cards like Timmerian Fiends but the dual lands and P9 and the like they should do a "vintage masters" set that has them all in it charge like $25 a pack and just let it go cause there are new cards that are just as good if not better than most the cards on the list and they was put on the list for being OP which just ain't the case anymore when there are/have been standard decks with T1 kills (kamangowa block had one so did time spiral block) modern has several
October 12, 2014 9:44 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #16
The list isn't their to keep the power level of the game in check. It's their so collectors can actually collect something.
Its a trading card before its a card game.
October 12, 2014 9:49 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #17
"vintage masters" set that has them all in it charge like $25 a pack
Please no, modern masters did nothing to solve the price issue with modern, limited print run product doesn't help supply a large quantity of cards. Slowly adding them in comander products pr making a longer print-run of a "vintage/legacy masters" would rock.
October 12, 2014 9:51 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #18
The power 9 can stay locked away for all most of us care. Is there anything on the list other than land that would really benefit us players?
October 12, 2014 9:53 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #19
Invoke Prejudice Chains of Mephistopheles Nether Void The Abyss stood out when I went down the list. Non ABUR duals on the list like Mishra's Workshop and Gaea's Cradle also fall under "ridiculously over priced". Plus who wouldn't want P9? An easier time getting into vintage would be welcomed IMO.
October 12, 2014 10:02 p.m.
Vintage is dying out cause if you don't have $14,000 dollars to throw at P9 your not going to be competitive (at least that's most people's take on it) and I don't know about yall but I like plaing my 4 Dark Ritual in a deck and only vintage allows that (I mean commander has become my favorite format of late cause I can run my Demonic Tutor and other "vintage" cards cause no one plays vintage here) and no I don't want them to drop the bottom out of the market but when I first started playing 16 years ago Sol Ring was on the "reserved list" but now they have been reprinting it like its going out of style I don't know when or why it came off the reserved list but sol ring is reprintable so can P9 and dual lands plus the reason wizards don't care if vintage dies is they are not making any money off of it any more so doing away with the reserved list could only bring them more money and as far as loosing "trust" of the old players there are at least 8 to 1 new players vs old players and making 8 people happy and 1 mad is still good business and inevitably will breathe some life back into the eternal formats, legacy included, and NO IT IS NOT a collector card first game second at least not to me or most people I know I play for fun not money and people just don't have fun when I play vintage stuff they never heard of muss less could afford
October 12, 2014 10:43 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #21
Punctuation.
That old player base is consistent customers. Of those eight new people you mention, two might stay.
The reserved list is for collectors, not players.
Vintage is dead. Deal with it.
October 12, 2014 10:46 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #22
"The reserved list is for collectors, not players." That's the problem, that policy benefits very few people, and really is keeping new eager players from enjoying great formats.
October 12, 2014 10:51 p.m.
Whatever I've never played for "collecting" I've always played to play and ifin you feel that way there is nothing I could say to change your mind and no I will not use punctuation cause I don't feel it is important enough to worry about just like you don't feel vintage is important enough to worry about
October 12, 2014 10:54 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #27
The Reserved List has some hilarious entries on it... if you've ever taken a look at it.
I don't really think that Wizards would risk it's oldest user base since they really make up a good (and the most consistent) percentage of players.
I think Vintage has found a great place to live on MTGO (now if only the client didn't blow major donkey dick). Check out Vintage Super League hosted by Randy Buehler on the Wizards stream if you want to see some decks played.
October 12, 2014 11:05 p.m.
EndStepTop says... #28
Don't bring Major Donkey's personal life into this!
All jokes aside, The mind set of letting paper vintage die because they don't want to find a way to fix the mess that is the reserved list is pretty lame. For a lack of better words.
October 12, 2014 11:12 p.m.
Vintage online is not for people like me who's kids take up 50% of the computer time and my wife takes up 45% and I'm at work (or driving back and forth to work) 13hs of the day it leaves no time for computer games and I like to spend face time with my freinds not Facebook time besides that this is a CARD "GAME" not WOW or Halo that you just sit in front of a screen all day you actually have to think about how your going to build your deck what your opponent is going to do and how your going to respond to said opponents action
October 12, 2014 11:27 p.m.
And besides that what collector do you know that would not love to have a foil Black Lotus ?
October 12, 2014 11:30 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #31
I wouldn't like one. Then again, I'm a sucker for old borders.
MTGO is exactly like the paper version, the only difference is you don't see the other player. You still have to build the deck, make the plays, etc.
October 12, 2014 11:34 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #32
As for time being an issue, I wouldn't recommend paper magic. Too much time involved what with the tournament organizers, other players, driving, food... It's just a hassle.
October 12, 2014 11:35 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #33
I've tried 3 times to find a good sentence but all i got is I'm sad that I'm going to have to pay 50 bucks for an original dual land that is in shit condition
October 12, 2014 11:35 p.m.
$50 for a non blue dual land $200+ for an underground sea
October 13, 2014 4:14 a.m.
And as far as old borders go I love the oldschool borders but my point was ment to be that foils are for collectors and non foils was for players sorry if my point was not clear on that part
October 13, 2014 4:19 a.m.
EndStepTop says... #36
Also, collectors care about rarity. You think a 9-10 graded alpha Usea is dropping because it gets reprinted with the new horrendous border? Hell no. Look at Lightning Bolt the alpha is still very expensive by comparison to the m10?(can't remember last reprint) reprinting reserved list cards isn't going to make the sky fall, these are 20 year old cards they have VERY solid collecting value even if they get new printings. I'd like to see them start with cards like the legends enchantments or Candelabra of Tawnos , seeing fringe play, they would have such a huge demand that they'd start out at a huge price.
October 13, 2014 10:59 a.m.
EndStepTop says... #37
"They would have such a huge demand"
Should be wouldn't , damn proof reading.
October 13, 2014 11:02 a.m.
AngelicCookies says... #38
Who cares about taking down the list? The only cards relatively interesting are Gaea's Cradle , the Alpha duals, Serra's Sanctum , and Candelabra of Tawnos . I'm kind of just waiting for them to print some crazy draft set with Mana Drain and Force of Will , which aren't on the reserved list, at rare. Can you say most annoying sealed set ever?
vampirelazarus says... #2
Inb4 this ends up being a debate thread I whether or not it should be removed.
Which, it shouldn't.
October 12, 2014 3:14 p.m.