New Format: King of the Hill
General forum
Posted on June 7, 2018, 10:14 p.m. by urhere13
Hey guys, I've been working on cooking up this new format idea. Mainly for commander but can run in any format, only for multiplayer games for sure. King of the Hill. Basically the idea is like any other game of magic, win. No difference in how you do it, you just need to be the last one standing.
The way the game works is just like normal EDH (or whatever format you prefer) everyone starts in the same place. Once one player has more life than everyone else however, that player becomes the King. The king has a few perks that come with power. 1.) Firstly, the king immediately becomes the monarch. Whether that changes anything in the game is up to your decks, it's just flavorful. 2.) Second, the king gains control over the arch enemy deck. They use it just like a normal arch enemy game. 3.) Lastly, they get a few upkeep perks, that I like to think of as his tax. They draw an extra card, get a gold token, and gain 2 life.
There are a few other stipulations too. Once a king has been established, the game becomes arch enemy. Everyone against the king. Also if the king at any time loses, or no longer has the most life, the player with the most life becomes king, or the king is set to the side until someone has the most.
Please leave your questions or comments. I'd really like some feedback.
I really think this could be cool. Could incentivise some of those assist cards, could throw some monarch related stuff in the mix, should be fun I think. Let me know what you think.
I actually have tested it since the post and think I can now address some of these.
So the archenemy deck isnt a deck, it's the archenemy cards from that format they dropped. it's like a 20 card oversized deck that gives you things at upkeep. So it shouldn't mess with strategy or anything I dont think as the deck is inherently random.
The whole changing of the king thing was a little strange. We decided to do it like this. Player with the most life is king. If anyone ties for most, there is no king. If someone surpasses for most, they become king.
As for the monarch I think I'm removing it, I was unaware of the additional stuff at first. I thought it had only effected certain cards like Regal Behemoth and stuff. Didnt know about the end step draw and switch on damage.
It was really interesting to play. The balance of when you want to be king vs when you want someone else too was pretty cool. Especially because when someone is king, everyone else is then on a team. This means cards that effect opponents only can only effect the king if you aren't king, or hit everyone still if you are. So decks like Nekusaur really want it to stay a free for all or be king. But a mid range or long con type deck wants someone else to be king so they have the protection of being on a temporary team while they build.
I was king a majority of the evening and it seemed rather balanced playing like this. I went 1/3 with the win coming off an exquisite blood sanguine bond.
June 8, 2018 4:54 a.m. Edited.
Thank you a lot for the feedback though. Especially that monarch tip, that really helps.
June 8, 2018 5:04 a.m.
SteelSentry says... #5
This looks cool. I've been meaning to get my hands on an Archenemy deck, and I'll be sure to try this out at my LGS when I get one .
June 8, 2018 8:54 p.m.
Hey thanks man, try and let me know how it goes if you get the chance. And if you have any questions about how we ran certain parts, or dealt with some of the odd things that could come up because of this, I'm happy to answer. Also any input you get after your done would be greatly appreciated.
June 8, 2018 9:06 p.m.
DragonGodKing90 says... #7
urhere13: im pretty sure that cdkime knew exactly which cards you were referring to when you said "archenemy deck". knowing that, i think you should re-read their comments with that in mind.
June 9, 2018 5:40 p.m.
Then i think i just disagree? Maybe i dont understand what hes trying to get across here, but at least in my opinion your strategy should be your strategy, the deck is an augment and in itself, random and plays to many different play styles. Never knowing what you'll draw means setting up a strategy based off specific parts of the deck is an inherently flawed strategy.
Second, even if you are, one player disrupting anothers well made plan is kind of the entire point lol why would i want to just let my opponents do exacctly what they want.
Lastly, the decks discard gets shuffled back in at every switch, so every player with the deck has the same odds to draw any card in the deck at any time so if you are setting up a strategy based on it, good on you you still can with the same probabilities.
Like of you want to center your game around the deck good on you, but just like anything else in magic youre going to get disrupted and your going to have to play around other players who want to inherently stop you from doing what you want to do in order to win.
June 9, 2018 6:05 p.m.
DragonGodKing90 says... #9
"never knowing what you'll draw means setting up a strategy based off specific parts of the deck is an inherently flawed strategy".
that statement is just blatantly false. every single deck ever is based off of specific parts of the deck, and unless you've just scried recently, you won't know what you're drawing.
"second even if you are"
even if we are...what?
"why would i let my opponents do what they want"
nobody ever said that. not sure how you came to that conclusion. the point cdkime was making was that the "monarch" or king or whatever could be building up resources/abilities/etc that someone else may also want when they become the new monarch. but until they do become the new monarch, they have to destroy those resources just to survive. this kind of play is counter-intuitive and honestly just sounds plain frustrating.
"lastly, the (archenemy) decks discard gets shuffled back in at every switch"
this is the first time you've mentioned this. don't expect people to be psychic.
"Like of you want to center your game around the deck good on you, but just like anything else in magic youre going to get disrupted and your going to have to play around other players who want to inherently stop you from doing what you want to do in order to win."
knowing that the opponents will attempt to disrupt you, is certainly no excuse not to build a deck that synergizes well with the Archenemy cards being used. building a deck that includes cards whose effects interact well with the effects of the known archenemy cards is literally the smartest thing a player could do in this type of "format".
June 9, 2018 6:24 p.m.
I guess the shuffle was assumed? I definitely didnt say your right but you absolutely have to otherwise it's unbalanced.
And again thats fine if you want to build a deck that centers around the archenemy deck, but you also have to accept other players are going to counterplay that. Thats just how magic works. Every game you want to build resources and gain advantage but something happens and suddenly you need to expend those. Thats not this format, thats all of magic.
Like if you want to build a combo deck and stay head with your combos thats fine, but someone ia going to try to stop you and prevent you feom winning the game. So you expend resources to stop them from stopping you and so on.
June 9, 2018 6:45 p.m. Edited.
I do appreciate the feedback though, and that helped me understand what was implied there more which is very helpful. I can see the point being made there, i guess i just disagree. After playing through this multiple times i havent had an issue with it.
If thete are any other thoughts, especially abiut how this might affect turn order id love more feedback though especially if anyone has tried it out
Caerwyn says... #2
Here are my thoughts, broken down by category:
Monarch
Being the Monarch, by definition, "changes [some]thing in the game."
716.2. There are two inherent triggered abilities associated with being the monarch. These triggered abilities have no source and are controlled by the player who was the monarch at the time the abilities triggered. This is an exception to rule 112.8. The full texts of these abilities are “At the beginning of the monarch’s end step, that player draws a card” and “Whenever a creature deals combat damage to the monarch, its controller becomes the monarch.”
If you are trying to be accurate with the rules, you should probably phrase your rules like this:
xxx. When you become King of the Hill, you immediately become the monarch and gain an emblem with "So long as you have the highest life total, you cannot cease to be the monarch and no other player can become the monarch."
Archenemy Deck
Having a deck that changes players is extremely problematic.
First, it means each and every player needs to be intimately familiar with the Archenemy deck. This not only requires arduous study by multiple players, but ruins some of the surprise for the non-King players and makes it a lot easier for them to combat the King.
Second, Player A starts as the King. He has a plan and has been setting up something. Player A is removed from the game, and Player B takes over. Player B might want to use a different strategy, or not see what A was doing, or otherwise inadvertently disrupt a well-made plan. This constant change of control results in sub-optimal gameplay.
One fix would be that players use their own decks, but with additional perks.
The Perks
I don't think you took the Monarch ability into consideration, which might change the card draw in your perks. I think these could help with the balance issue, but it would require significant playtesting to get these properly balanced. As such, I do not feel I have the qualifications to render an opinion at this time.
Change of Leadership
I have some issues with your mechanics here--specifically how you handle ties. I think you should use the following rules:
If the King of the Hill loses the game or no longer has the most life, the player with the most life becomes the King of the Hill.
In the event two or more players are tied for the highest life total and the active player is among those tied for the highest life total, the active player becomes the King of the Hill.
In the event two or more players are tied for the highest life total, and the active player is not among those tied for the highest life total, the next active player who is tied for the highest life total becomes the King of the Hill.
Concluding Thoughts
This is an interesting concept, though I think it has some problems and will be incredibly difficult to balance. Make the King too powerful and the game is not competitive or fun. Further, then players might feel forced to always go after the King, allowing fast combo players breathing room to set up their victory. Too weak, and you will not accomplish the type of gameplay you're trying to promote.
Good luck with your idea! I'll be interested to see how it evolves and what others have to say.
June 7, 2018 11:12 p.m.