Is it Time to Embrace Land Destruction?
General forum
Posted on Jan. 27, 2020, 10:34 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I found this article, today, and I found it to be very interesting. Land destruction is a very unpopular element of this game, but this article is advocating for employing land destruction in a way that will not make the game unfun for the players, which is certainly a challenging argument to make.
What does everyone else say about this subject? Do you feel that land destruction could still be an acceptable part of the game, if it is not excessive?
Deadpoo111 says... #3
IDK, it really depends on how it's being done. I'm not a huge fan of MLD as it really just tips the game, and results in all the others players no longer having fun. Same thing goes for a deck that runs a strip mine loop and uses it every damn game. However, I'm fully behind removing problem lands. Black has Urborg, Cabal Coffers. There's Dark Depths, Thespian Stage, Glacial Chasm, Maze of Ith, Nykthos, and Field of the Dead. The reason these cards are so strong is because there's almost no interaction with them. Running LD to get rid of those lands is a good thing!
January 28, 2020 9:19 a.m.
Its all ok in Legacy with decks like Death & Taxes denying opponent their resources. Less ok in Modern (i think, im not into modern atm) and less ok in EDH. I run one Armageddon in one of my 6 EDH decks, an i think i have only used it once.. to annoy everyone else because i was losing :).
January 28, 2020 11:23 a.m.
Last_Laugh says... #5
It's ALWAYS been time to embrace land destruction!
“Your entire generation will fuck this planet into a coma.”
January 28, 2020 4:23 p.m. Edited.
King_Ramses says... #6
I have 100% embraced LD in commander. Green has gone unchecked and out of control. To me, it is no different than killing Mana dorks, blowing up artifacts, countering spells, etc. Any card that has been printed so long as it is not banned in the format is fair game. It is part of the game and not that I am someone who plays white, but if it was embraced more, perhaps it wouldn't be quite as bad. Seeing Nyxborn Ancient be spoiled immediately made me create a Numot list
January 28, 2020 6:15 p.m.
Darth_Sithis says... #7
I always thought LD and MLD should be accepted and a viable strategy to pursue. The negative Stigma surrounding it never made sense to me, Any good stax/tax, blue denial/control, Turn 2-3 infinite combo deck is just as or worse than LD/MLD. Yet i see those decks all over the place, in fact the card shop i frequent for EDH most players the stop by have one of those decks, no one bats an eye when they sit down with one but sit down with say a legit LD/MLD deck, everyone will lose their mind and you'll be alienated. There is no reason for it at all other than people running around and spreading the lies about it.. I remember getting into magic the first time and eventually hearing about Land Destruction and how it was the BIG BAD, Years later and even after going a against said LD, A numot edh deck... why i should i fear this? why is it sooo bad over anything else cancerous in mtg?? As annoying as it was having my lands blown up, that particular match wouldn't even be in my Top 50 of cancer decks i've fought much less something i would use as an example of cancer in edh to a newbie.
Not to mention i always see people running strip mines/Ghost quarter and a few other basic pop a problem land spell here or there and whats that... oh thats LD, even tho the playgroup will pretend its not there.
As mentioned in a different comment a basic LD deck isnt even all that viable, much less a threat. I think people need to stop being butt hurt over LD/MLD and let people sit down with decks made for such a strategy.
BUT like the article states it should be down with a purpose and done Tastefully ... Any deck built around Anything that just Slows everything to a massive crawl for no reason is a pain in the ass. Like a U/G deck that taps and untaps in response to anything while eating up like 15 mins is going to make me want to slit my wrist. And Yes the power level of any current play group should also factor in. Lets be real, Any deck at a competitive level is primed to abuse something and its going to be pure cancer if you can't respond to it. I think we have all just be mentally trained to hate it, without any real reason to do so.. I would love to see someone sit down and see how many people have truly fought LD/MLD decks more than the odd one time, on all Levels of play, to see how they did and whether or not it was truly the worse thing they have ever gone against. I am currently trying to get into cEDH and i want it to be a deck for LD/MLD to see if its even viable in a turn 2-3 format.
January 28, 2020 7:30 p.m.
Clearly it seems the issue is not with the cards themselves, but how people use and react to them. As a 99% EDH player, no matter what strategy you use, someone is going to scoff and whine if you win the game (I am guilty of this too, from time to time). It does not mean that any specific strategy should be discouraged.
In terms of MLD specifically, if it is your win condition I say go for it. There is a Grixis superfriends deck in my playgroup that runs the red MLD cards as a win condition. They get 3-4 planeswalkers out and kill everything else. Game ends very soon after that. I am a fan of this, because I usually only get to play cards for a few hours a week. I want to play as many games as I can when I sit down to play MTG.
On the other hand, there is also an OG Jhoira deck in our group that runs the same MLD package. The difference is when the Jhoira player lands a Jokulhaups it does not win the game; only making everyone essentially restart and causing the game to go on for another hour or two.
I agree that green has been given an unintentional advantage in the EDH format because of the hesitation to use LD. I think that WotC should put an emphasis on targeted land destruction, as there are some problem lands in the format (mentioned above).
TL:DR Run LD. Losing sucks and people will complain when they do even if they are milled, combo-ed, or simply reaches 0 life.
January 28, 2020 8:31 p.m.
One aspect to remember is when players started playing Magic as well, as virtually all of the significant LD and MLD cards and spells created in the game occurred in the first five or six years of the game. The majority of the last 20 years of the game’s development has virtually eliminated straight LD as a viable strategy, as options in the majority of that time are land trade more than destruction.
For someone who has played since Unlimited, I don’t give land destruction a second thought, but for someone with less than 10 years in this game, outside of occasional reprints, the strategy has no depth or focus from R&D, especially in non-eternal formats.
Like any other strategy, it should advance the users deck toward winning, but due to poor deck design, poor piloting of the deck or a combo of the two, too often it is just a stall tactic that doesn’t advance winning the game for the player using it. It doesn’t help that developers have mostly abandoned the strategy in the modern game either.
January 28, 2020 9:07 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #10
Imo of you have a deck that is capable of winning through mld, then by all means you can play as much as you like and works for you. If you are about to lose and blow up all lands despite not being able to prevent yourself from losing by doing so or the board is at a stalemate with nobody being able to attack, then I will probably get annoyed with you for making my game go longer than need be just because you can.
I welcome mld and if it is played with a purpose at my table, you can expect me not to treat you any differently than before. That being said, my decks tend to be able to survive that sort of things because of rocks, dorks, and a low cmc in general as well as the fact that I am pretty laid back so I don't think I am or have ever been a reason for people not to blow up lands.
enpc says... #2
The biggest issue with land destruction often times is the player, not the cards. I have no issues with land destruction in a game, unless it's just done "because it's funny" or some other equally retarded reason. But I think that playing land hate strategically should be embraced more.
A lot of players don't like land destruction because it's "feel bads" however the underlying reason is that a good chunk of those players A) are not equipped to deal with any form of land destuction and B) do not want to have to build their decks in a way that would allow them to be able to deal with land destruction.
Unfortunately a lot of players like their insulated little bubble and the immedaite response to a deck which challenges that (whether it be combo, stax or generally just be faster and more consistent) is to complain and say "we don't play XYZ in our play group". It's not that any of those strategies are evil, it's just that in all honesty, the majoirty of EDH decks are slow and inefficient with terrible curves. But if they are playing against similarly bad decks, the deficiencies aren't as noticable. But things like MLD drag those decks into he harsh light of reality.
I think it would be good to see land destuction embraced more by the community at large. I'm not saying that it should be as dominat as countermagic, however I think that peopel shouldn't shy away from it as much as they do. It would encourage the playerbase as a whole to improve and adapt and would make for better deckbuilding across the board. But again, this assumes that people would be playing MLD with the intention of getting actual value from it.
I also think it would help shut down the arguement that "White needs more card advantage/ramp" as the majority of MLD is in white and it would remind people of the actual power of the colour.
But hey, that's just my two cents.
January 27, 2020 11:43 p.m.