How to tell my friend that pain lands are good?
General forum
Posted on Jan. 29, 2015, 3:43 p.m. by TheGrayMerchant
My friend recently bought a deckbuilder's toolkit, and he pulled a pain land. He didn't see the point in them, saying that paying life was risky and he didn't like it, and he sold them. I respect my friends decisions but at some point he needs to learn that pain/shock lands are good. How can i tell him?
omnipotato says... #3
He'll just learn by playing a lot. You start to realize after a bit that 1 or 2 life is nothing compared to a land coming into play tapped and slowing your tempo.
January 29, 2015 3:46 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #4
The capitalist side of me wants to not tell him anything and then offer to trade things for them.
Fetchlands? I have to pay life? Crap.
Shocks? Crap.
Pain lands? Crap.
Mana Confluence/City of Brass? Crap.
Sell them all to me for really cheap.
The other side of me thinks you should jam a bunch of tap lands into a deck of his, get him to try that, then replace them with pain lands to let him feel the difference.
January 29, 2015 3:47 p.m.
Souljacker says... #5
Tell him that at any point in the game, board State is the most important factor to be able to win. How much life you have doesn't influence the chance of winning very much (exceptions there).
In multicolor decks, mana is very important to maintain a good board State since without mana you can't play things. Painlands help your mana and thus your boardstate, so it's worth the life. It is indeed a resource until you get in lethal range and have to make different decisions.
January 29, 2015 3:57 p.m.
" jam a bunch of tap lands into a deck of his, get him to try that, then replace them with pain lands to let him feel the difference. "
that would do it
January 29, 2015 4:09 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #7
Better yet, make them lifelands. If he values lifegain so much, make that what you throw in.
January 29, 2015 4:11 p.m.
Yea honestly the more you play the more you understand that life is basically irrelevant, and that making your plays on time is much more important. Just tell him to hold onto them for now, as he can always sell them later, but having to buy them later if he starts to agree with you will cost him more.
January 29, 2015 4:11 p.m.
julianjmoss says... #9
Just play games with him and whenever he is mana screwed or has incorrect colors, bring up the painlands up and talk to him about whether he needs one more life or the colored mana. Its very easy to conceptualize that way
January 29, 2015 4:25 p.m.
This is how I learned:
Show him that paying 1 life, can cause the enemy to lose 2-3 or however much right now, compared to next turn. Or, how it can cast that blocker right now, saving potential damage. Essentially, they lose more than you, it's that simple...
If he's really smart, explain to him to how getting that mana out quick makes damage output/defense/whatever your build is/etc come out quicker. It's effeciency, and it's exponential in MtG...
January 29, 2015 5:44 p.m.
grumbledore says... #11
I'm curious about what he thinks of Dark Confidant :P
January 31, 2015 2:45 p.m.
TheGrayMerchant says... #12
He sold his shocklands. He seems to like scrylands atm. By the way, I will probably never be able to trade with him because he's a huge prick with trades and goes by SCG prices, so even if I offer him a card that is worth 50 cents less that the card I want, he'll decline it. I'll try making a brew with only pain/shock lands and play against him, and let him see the difference.
Quote from him: "I don't really like shocklands; In my first buy (a Deckbuilder's Toolkit) I actually pulled 2 shocklands, didn't see the point in paying life for a color, and sold them both. I personally think that there are plenty of other dual lands, so I shouldn't have to pay life for a color."
I don't think hes going to budge.
January 31, 2015 2:53 p.m.
MagicBadgerz says... #14
Look, this post is about me, okay? And by the way, he says in the intro, "I respect my friends decisions," but then proceeds to call me a prick later on. I personally don't need that many dual lands in my decks (seeing as I usually only use the second color for multicolors), so there's really no reason to pay life when I can just use scry and life lands. Also, the reason I decline most of his trades isn't because of price, it's because what he's offering me isn't anything that I have any use for. If you really "respect my decisions", then why don't you just drop the subject, seeing as you've been droning on and on about this in at least one conversation a day for literally MONTHS.
January 31, 2015 4:58 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #16
Are any of your multicolored cards early drops? If so, the painlands can help you cast them exactly when you want to rather than having to wait until next turn with a tapland. If they are bigger guys (like Keranos, God of Storms or something in your mostly-red deck), then you should be fine with the scrylands and gainlands.
In general though, know that if you are playing a fast deck you will want things like Shivan Reef because your goal is to have the opponent be dead before the damage you take means anything, and the 2-3 damage you may take is very worth casting your spells when they need to be cast.
January 31, 2015 5:29 p.m.
grumbledore says... #17
Honestly I have friends with the same attitude. What I've come to think is that not everyone is entirely focused on being competitive and winning. As long as everyone is playing and having fun, then it's all good.
January 31, 2015 5:39 p.m.
Death_The_Kid says... #18
This is great because I have a friend that is pretty much the same way. About lands that is. But he stopped playing magic and moved to Hearthstone so oh well. Hey tell him to play Hearthstone you get mana every turn and there is no color. yaaaay
February 1, 2015 2:44 a.m.
SimicPower says... #19
Show by example. It is the best way. Play a deck versus him that uses only pain lands and then one that uses gain lands and show the difference.
I never had to deal with this because I started playing in Scars-Innistrad standard, when there were no pain lands in standard. By the time Return to Ravnica came out, I was an experienced enough player to realize that my manabase needed work so I picked up a few Temple Garden. (I never had Razorverge Thickets anyway for "budget" reasons.)
February 1, 2015 3:25 p.m.
HerpDerpington says... #20
Or you could just use basic lands. Basic lands ftw. These are my favorites.
February 1, 2015 10:01 p.m.
grumbledore says... #21
Derp! You are of course talking unhinged foil basics, amiright?
February 1, 2015 10:23 p.m.
I think we can close this thread. The guy OP was talking about apparently also has a TappedOut account as shown above and has stated that he doesn't want to play them. He has his own reasons, and is probably not playing an aggro deck.
February 1, 2015 10:44 p.m.
SimicPower says... #23
kyuuri117: I think that's fair. The scrylands aren't so bad in slower decks.
February 2, 2015 12:19 a.m.
HerpDerpington says... #24
Yeah, Only $40 a card lol. No but seriously if you have the right amount of basic lands in your deck, you can avoid both the problems of losing life, and having to wait for mana.
February 2, 2015 8:48 a.m.
MagicBadgerz says... #25
@GlistenerAgent
No, none of my multicolors are early drops. Like I said, in my deck the second color is used only for multicolors. When you don't even really need the second color that much, the gain lands are more of a bonus than a necessity. Why pay life for a second color when I don't even have to? I appreciate the input.
@scrotality
That's the way that I look at games like MtG. It's just a game, and I don't play competitively, so I just play the way that's most fun for me.
Also, LOVE the Parks and Rec reference when Ben drops the mic.
alulien says... #2
Tell him that life is a resource. As long as you have >= 1 life, you're still in the game (unless you're playing against burn in which case that # changes between formats).
January 29, 2015 3:45 p.m.