How is Guttural Response a Break?

General forum

Posted on Nov. 16, 2019, 1:23 a.m. by DemonDragonJ

Mark Rosewater has stated multiple times that Guttural Response breaks the color pie, but I do not see how it does, since it is so limited that I feel that it is perfectly within the capabilities of red and green.

What does everyone else say about this? Do you believe that Guttural Response is a break in the color pie? Why or why not?

CharonSquared says... #2

It's not a matter of power level or flexibility, it's that counterspells are almost always blue. Off the top of my head, the only other exceptions are Mana Tithe , Lapse of Certainty , and Dash Hopes .

November 16, 2019 1:28 a.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #3

CharonSquared, Guttural Response can counter only blue instant spells, so it really is useful only against counterspells, so I still believe that that is an acceptable bend, but not a break.

November 16, 2019 1:32 a.m.

enpc says... #4

Typically red will redirect or copy spells, rather than countering (yes, I'm aware that Red Elemental Blast is a card), however in modern times we see a lot more cards like Reverberate , Ricochet Trap , Bolt Bend , etc. Green on the other hand just forces their spells through with stuff like Autumn's Veil , Veil of Summer , Savage Summoning , Prowling Serpopard , etc.

And when you put them together, you get stuff like Vexing Shusher , who is the epitome of red/green.

November 16, 2019 1:59 a.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #5

Each color has at least one counterspell, and each are conditional within the context of their own flavor for said color.

For example, red hates artifacts so Artifact Blast makes sense in red.

Similarly, Dash Hopes makes sense in black because it allows life to be paid to circumvent the card.

As long as a card mechanically and flavorfully makes sense within it's established color philosophy, it only bends the rules.

Guttural Response doesn't make sense as neither red nor green really have established hate toward blue. Yes some cards exist, such as Mistcutter Hydra .

Mistcutter Hydra is a giant creature, whom Green loves.

Burnout makes a lot less sense and is another example of cards that break the pie. You shouldn't be able to counter AND draw in red for 2cmc, one being generic.

So it's more so about HOW those cards get things done and much less about THAT they get those things done.

November 16, 2019 4:11 a.m.

You can use flavor to validate just about anything so it really isn't a valid reason.

November 16, 2019 7:36 a.m.

grumbledore says... #7

Dash Hopes and Mana Tithe were both printed in Planar Chaos - a set that was focused on breaking the color pie (also: Damnation ). RG has no business having a hard counter. That said, I love Guttural Response . Countering a cryptic with that is just ... oh so good lol

November 16, 2019 9:34 a.m.

Caerwyn says... #8

There are four cards that specifically counter Blue spells: Burnout , Pyroblast , Red Elemental Blast , and Guttural Response . You’ll notice those all share something in common - Red.

The problem with Guttural Response is not the fact that it is an anti-Blue Counterspell for ; the problem is that it is an anti-Blue Counterspell for as well. That’s where it breaks the colour pie.

November 16, 2019 11:45 a.m. Edited.

Coward_Token says... #9

Things like Vexing Shusher & Rhythm of the Wild are 's contemporary, non-breaky answer to 's counterspells

November 16, 2019 5:19 p.m.

Nights_Loser says... #10

It looks more like a bend than a break for me.

November 17, 2019 9:16 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #11

Caerwyn, how is that the case? Green is red's ally and blue's other enemy, so I do not see the problem.

Nights_Loser, I agree with you about that.

November 18, 2019 6:41 p.m.

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