Does anybody miss Evacuation?
General forum
Posted on July 2, 2010, 9:50 a.m. by luckyfirefox16
Ok, plain and simple: most colors get some form of boardsweep or a decent way of keeping up with an overwhelming mass of creatures. White has day-of-judgement , Black has Consume the Meek . Red has an egregious amound of burn and Earthquake . Green is most likely to recover from a sweep or win a creature arm's race than most any color (White can keep up, but green is still THE creature color). What's blue get though? Sleep ? Come on wizards! Now blue is just fine where it is right now, and I'm not saying it's completely needed, but does anyone else miss some good old board sweep for blue? I just want to dust off my Evacuation s for standard again! It might tip the scales for blue's current power creep, but it's still my favorite card. What are everyone's thoughts though- Yes, reprint, No, not at all, or print a varient that's not as broken as instant-speed board bounce.
SocialistElite says... #3
Personally, I'm just happy they gave me back Mana Leak and Scry. Sure, Evacuation is nice, but Sleep , Reality Spasm , jace, the mind sculptor, and Calcite Snapper is usually enough for blue to stay alive.
July 3, 2010 12:55 a.m.
Interesting. Though Blue is all about control... Not mass board wiping. I think thats why you won't see much of a Evacuation type card for blue unless it's massively expensive. Simply changing it for a Sorcery isn't good enough espicially with Leyline of Anticipation in M11 now.
Sleep Isn't that bad a card though to be honest, and if you can get it coming back from the grave for 1 more activation (Or use it with the leyline in your opponents turn)... you can pretty much win with a 5 drop (or 2) :)
July 10, 2010 2:23 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #6
Sleep is only good as an aggro card, if you ask me. It is of course much better with the Leyline, but then what isn't?
July 12, 2010 8:12 a.m.
luckyfirefox16 says... #7
Thank you all so much for the comments! I was away on vacation, so I didn't get to read any of them until now, but I'm glad to see some counterpoint right alongside the love and agreement.
To defend my choice now: @SocialistElite- Yes, we are on the gravy train for blue getting some more appealing cards, but what most control players miss, is the big answer card for more tahn 1-3 threats. Evacuation facillitates this nicely as we can wipe the board like all the other colors. Yes, Sleep may do the same, and yes, Reality Spasm can get the job done, but they each only lock down the opponents creatures. Neither actually gets them off the board. It may seem like a small gripe, but removing tokens and making your opponent recast creatures is a HUGE advantage over disabling for a turn or two. I defend the functional reprint at sorcery speed to put it on par with the Wrath effects in fairness to sweeping the board, and I stand by it as it seems more fair than the crutch of merely tapping a baneslayer as opposed to actually making it cost another 5 mana and a turn to get in for that sexy flying first strike lifelink damage.
@cardcoin- You have the biggest hit on my arguement with your statement... Blue doesn't really scream boardwipe, this is true. But we must also remember that other colors not known for it get situational boardwipe too. Again I point to the Earthquake s Windstorm s and Consume the Meek s of standard. A sorcery speed sweep for 5 seems fair to me. I think the Leyline of Anticipation is a valid arguement, but it is too unreliable in my eyes to make a sorcery speed evac crazy.
July 12, 2010 12:29 p.m.
luckyfirefox16 says... #8
Oh, and I forgot- this sweep doesn't really remove creatures, it bounces them! Your opponent doesnt lose that card:Gaea's Revenge or that Baneslayer Angel or even worse (for now at least) the dreaded Bloodbraid Elf will recascade.
My current playable sweep in blue is the expensive All Is Dust ... it just seems broken that all we get is Sleep . Blue agro is fun, but I miss my control.
July 12, 2010 12:32 p.m.
Is tapping creatures posited as the latest way of dealing with creatures for blue: Sleep , Frost Giant , Wall of Frost and Air Servant ? Compared with the bounce spells we are offered in the latest block: AEther Adept and Unsummon only, it's quite a poor show. It's the same with how to deal with Baneslayer Angel ? Green gets Plummet , red Combust , black Doom Blade , each of which can do something about it when it's already in play, rather than blues Mana Leak (as great as it is to have back, it isn't great if you draw it the turn after the angel has been played) other than that you have to match or better it, or use that Air Servant locking down your own mana resources.
I agree, something like Evacuation at this early stage of the new block is sorely missed. But as cardcoin said blue = control; to play it you've kind of got to think round corners (scry, Conundrum Sphinx ). Plus the Mirrodin plane has a lot to do with artifacts, which are often coupled highly with blue, perhaps we'll see a bit of a step up for blue then...
July 17, 2010 12:35 p.m.
SocialistElite says... #10
Jace is so busted, blue doesnt NEED anything else. That card alone can power out a pretty good control deck.
July 17, 2010 3:32 p.m.
To come back to this discussion... Have you noticed that in M11, Windstorm and Earthquake are now going out?
mumbles madly that this is a bad thing for a G/R deck he was wanting to work on
Yes, anyway coming back to what I wanted to say... If Evacuation came back into the format it would cause the anti-blue parade to cry. Like SocialistElite has stated... Blue has a power rare in itself in Jace.
Seriously though... If you have 1 or 2 5/5 creatures in play, a well timed sleep would basically hand you the game.
How is this card NOT game changing? Espicially with the use of Call to Mind ?
July 17, 2010 3:53 p.m.
luckyfirefox16 says... #12
Yeah... the retirement of sweep in other colors does kind of stifle my gripes here- I guess I just miss the card. Can't complain with needing more skill to utilize sleep either. We'll see what Mirrodin brings though
July 18, 2010 2:03 a.m.
GoblinsInc says... #14
Different flavors of black-green decks have recently been among the best-performing decks in Modern. These decks play many very efficient ways to trade cards one for one with their opponents, such as Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Abrupt Decay. Strong mana acceleration helps these decks trade one for one efficiently enough that they can keep up with the other decks in a large format such as Modern, but normally playing mana acceleration comes at the cost of playing cards that are less powerful in the late game. Deathrite Shaman, however, is powerful at all stages of the game. Having a strong attrition-based deck as a large portion of the metagame makes it difficult for decks that are based on synergies between cards instead of individually powerful cards. We believe that removing Deathrite Shaman from the format will leave more room for future innovation.
Taken from http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/285
April 2, 2014 10:26 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #15
Epochalyptik, I'm pretty sure this belongs in the Modern forum. Q&A is for rules questions.
April 2, 2014 10:32 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
The Q&A is for rules questions. Although the banning itself is, in a sense, a rule, asking why the banning happened is not a rules question. It's a format question. Moved.
April 2, 2014 10:37 p.m.
On a less professional note deathrite himself was keeping certain decks from being played. And wizards believes that a card, that keeps certain decks from being playable, is bad for the format.
April 2, 2014 10:46 p.m.
unholycookies says... #18
@playingonabudget So.......ban counter spells? It keeps all decks from being played. May my spell resolve mister? WHAT'D YOU SAY?!?!?!!? I played a spell mister.... NO! COUNTERED!
How I bet some people feel after playing against control.
April 3, 2014 12:22 a.m.
"So.......ban counter spells? It keeps all decks from being played."
Well, that's a narrow generalization. First of all, Deathrite Shaman costs 1 mana for either Black or Green (highly likely, if not simply guaranteed, to be playable on turn-1 if in opening hand). Secondly, it eats your fetch-land that you used to help cast it on the second turn and acts like a mana dork. Thirdly, it disrupts your opponent's graveyard plans every turn for minimum mana investment. Lastly, it generates value for you by disrupting your opponent's graveyard plans with minimum investment.
It was too strong for Modern. If you need more proof, just look at how awesomely powerful it is in Legacy.
Counterspells are simply a cornerstone of Magic and are what help keep all decks in check, without dominating them. After all, when was the last time you could continually counter spells each turn for 1 mana with the same spell, and gain/drain life?
April 3, 2014 12:37 a.m.
notamardybum says... #20
if the counterspell was something like this...
When you cast this spell, exile this card. You may play this card FOREVER. It only costs U to play, and you can counter everything. and it can't be countered. all you have to do is tape it and play U. seriously... and you probably will win the game because of this, congratulations.
... then it would probably be banned to0
April 3, 2014 12:50 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #21
G/B > Unfair.
G/B wants to play magic, Unfair wants to play anti-magic.
Don't trip, it'll get unbanned. Problem was that the card kinda defines modern as it wasn't just in G/Bx decks but just about any deck capable of producing black mana which giving the fetches in modern was an easy fix.
April 3, 2014 1:41 a.m.
And counter spells aren't keeping decks from being played, just look at how many decks are.played that don't run.counter spells...most of them.
April 3, 2014 7:37 a.m.
I haven't played Modern yet, but am getting interested in starting. So, if I have the argument right Deathrite Shaman was too powerful because he capitalizes off of fetch lands, thereby providing mana acceleration as the cracked fetch land is then eaten by the shaman? Seems sort of boo-hoo to me, but then again I'm just starting to get interested in the format.
April 3, 2014 7:22 p.m.
Well, not really. Deathrite Shaman is good because he eats both players' used fetch-lands, but that's not entirely why he was banned.
He was banned because he disrupts graveyard strategies each turn with minimum mana investment AND kills your opponent/gains you life while doing it.
April 3, 2014 7:43 p.m.
So don't play graveyard strategies, or be prepared to kill him...
April 3, 2014 7:50 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #27
But why kill him when your opponent can easily play Bob or Tarmogoyf next turn? I think another reason he was banned was because the decks that ran him best (coughcoughJundcough) had easy next turn powerhouses that would most likely take priority over Deathrite.
April 3, 2014 7:54 p.m.
based on the releases and discussion points i read from wizards deathrites ability to ramp as a one drop wasnt the reason for the ban at all. It had very little to do with it.
it was banned because its a 1 drop that created massive advantage at all stages of the game that no other card could provide. It ramped turn 1 like birds / hierarch and turned into Grim Lavamancer with the option of damage / life gain later in the game AND turned off entire deck strategies AND cards like Snapcaster Mage , Vengevine etc.
April 3, 2014 9:45 p.m.
"So don't play graveyard strategies, ..."
That's a very good reason to ban something in the first place. When a single card is so strong that it makes an entire meta go "Well, don't play that because this is legal," it's not healthy.
April 4, 2014 1:19 a.m.
It was arguably the best planeswalker in modern :) It just did so much. In the early-game it was a 1/2 flightless Birds of Paradise , and in the late game it is a Shock (to players) on a stick. The life gain is the least relevant ability, but it certainly can help win races. It hoses graveyards, costs 1 mana, and has 3 relevant abilities. Oh yeah, did i mention that they made it a 1/2? Yeah... It's pretty op.
April 4, 2014 4:50 p.m.
forestlore44 says... #32
That's funny though, that despite Deathrite Shaman banning, graveyard- based decks (aside from Living End) are still largely absent from the meta. I guess Scavenging Ooze is to blame for that..
April 4, 2014 5:38 p.m.
unholycookies says... #33
@zandl was a joke about the reasoning he used. I don't see a card being banned for making certain decks unplayable. A lot of cards make certain decks unplayable. Rest in Peace handles the graveyard nicely. I don't think that card will ever get banned, or ever should. Even though I want it to be just because fuck modern control. I like my graveyard jank decks!
honeymomo says... #2
I certainly miss this. Keep your fingers crossed for m11. Ultimate !@%& you card.
July 3, 2010 12:26 a.m.