Demon at deaths gate.
General forum
Posted on July 1, 2010, 12:25 a.m. by Xander574
This is a thread to discuss this card as much as possible. But I do have a specific question. Can you sacrifice and bring back to life Reassembling Skeleton three times. to pay for the cost of Demon At Death's Gate
mistergreen527 says... #3
I did some searching on Delraich rulings, since it has a similar ability, but I didn't have much luck. So, I turned to the comprehensive rulebook. Along with many rules on alternative costs, here's the main relevant ruling:
601.2g The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs cant be paid.
So, when you go to pay for the spell, you must make the full payment (in this case, the alternative cost of sacrificing three creatures). This means that you must sacrifice all three creatures at that time. Sacrificing only one creature would be a partial payment, which is not allowed. There's just no room in the stack that allows you to bring the Reassembling Skeleton back between the declaration of casting card:Demon of Death's Gate and paying for it (these things happen nearly simultaneously stack-wise).
July 1, 2010 1:05 a.m.
well, depending on what scars looks like, if there's tokenspawn anywhere and a general decrease in the quantity and quality of removal (with the disappearance of Alara block) things like this might see play - potentially alt-cast on turn 3 or 4.
July 1, 2010 8:33 a.m.
SocialistElite says... #6
You can already play this gut pretty easily in a RB Spawn deck. Not only could you run the Demon, but you could also probably run Hand of Emrakul .
July 1, 2010 10:27 a.m.
mistergreen527 says... #7
For card:Demon of Death's Gate the sacrificed creatures have to be black though. Spawn tokens are colorless.
July 1, 2010 10:32 a.m.
luckyfirefox16 says... #8
What of all our wonderful Black one-drops like the emo-vampire club Vampire Lacerator , Guul Draz Vampire , Pulse Tracker , and Quag Vampires . And that's not even mentioning the shennannigans that would be possible with the likes of mortician-beatle or Death Cultist and card:Death's Shadow. This guy won't be a staple per se, but I think you could put up a pretty hilarious suicide black that ramps into him, or god forbid... multiple copies with card:Death's Shadow doing it's part.
July 1, 2010 10:45 a.m.
I think it'll see play, there are plenty of creatures in standard that you WANT to put in your graveyard Bloodghast , Reassembling Skeleton , unearth dudes... So it's not a terrible cost. I don't think generic one drops are the way to go, you need to get value out of those sac'ed creatures.
July 1, 2010 11:23 a.m.
SocialistElite says... #10
I missed that. My bad.
I think Lacerator is prefect for this kind of deck. Play him on turn 1. Turn 2, swing, their at 18, play two other one drops, power out card:Demon of Death's Gate. turn 3, swing, their at 9. Turn 4 their dead.
July 1, 2010 12:12 p.m.
Unfortunately the more likely situation is DDG gets Path'd. If they don't have an answer to any of your creatures, then just play Vampire Nocturnus and win anyways for 4 mana and no sac'ing. You need to play creatures that get you value when you sac them.
July 1, 2010 4:11 p.m.
luckyfirefox16 says... #12
v. true on the bloodghast and value for the sac'd creatures. I guess I just wanted to live the dream of a turn 2 demon... Like I said before, not a staple, but hilarious to pull off, even if path and purge will make me cry lol
July 1, 2010 8:21 p.m.
Nether Shadow , Bloodghast , Krovikan Horror , Reassembling Skeleton ,Cremate , card:Demon of Death's Gate.
sounds like a deck to me
July 1, 2010 9:56 p.m.
SocialistElite says... #14
But path is rotating out of standard. Even if you hit an opponent once with DDG (which is pretty likely since you can duress them) you get value out of him. Youre Guul Draz Vampire 's become instant clocks after just one more point of damage. So I wouldn't write this strategy off so quickly.
July 1, 2010 11:10 p.m.
I think that a turn 3 demon-of-hells-gate is good. I mean if you get your third creature out for two swamp you still have one open to play Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek to see if they have any removal and if they do just get rid of it. Then all you got to worry about is the draw. Also if two of the creatures were bloodghasts chances are they will be back real soon.
July 2, 2010 10:10 a.m.
I think that a turn 3 demon-of-hell's-gate is good. I mean if you get your third creature out for two swamp you still have one open to play Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek to see if they have any removal and if they do just get rid of it. Then all you got to worry about is the draw. Also if two of the creatures were Bloodghast s chances are they will be back real soon.
July 2, 2010 10:11 a.m.
i could see people attempting to construct decks around this guy IF AND ONLY IF he got given haste. without haste he's just lacking a little bit too much. Which is why he wont see play. However i do like the idea of him.
As well as that Condemn , Oust and counter spells hurt too much on this creature.
July 3, 2010 9:36 a.m.
@SirNips DDG with haste? now what kind of crazy person would put sword of vengeance onto a 9/9 flyer with trample? A strange person, that's who.
July 4, 2010 7:29 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #20
What's the cheapest deck I can build to get into legacy with? I want to play a white deck, and eventually work my way up to a Death and Taxes build and maybe see where this takes me from there.
Any suggestions?
March 28, 2014 11:10 p.m.
SnowCoveredRevenge says... #21
My suggestion is this. Identify a deck you will play and love for a while. Your first legacy deck really should be a manifestation of your magic play style, if you always play aggro, play aggro and so on and so on.
Second, Identify and prioritize the cards you will need to acquire and do not waiver or deviate from that plan, you can quickly spend your whole budget if you do not have the discipline to stick to a shopping list.
Third, NEVER EVER EVER EVER trade away staples, that is a key mistake people make when getting into legacy is trade staples for nonstaple cards.
Fourth. Be okay with playing a budget/sub optimal deck while building your deck.
March 28, 2014 11:38 p.m.
if you want a white deck then you're playing death and taxes, theres nothing to work your way up to death and taxes in white.
March 29, 2014 12:44 a.m.
honestly Mono Red burn is really easy to build and cheap. I foiled mine out for like 200 but normal its a cheap deck. Only expensive card really is goblin guide
March 29, 2014 1:04 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #24
I've thought about burn/RDW, I've been playing RDW since I started and I love it, but how effective is it in legacy?
March 29, 2014 2:12 a.m.
It is not the right time to become interested in Death & Taxes. The archetype is rising in popularity, leading to spikes in key cards Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Rishadan Port . Wait 'till the dust settles a bit before playing the deck.
March 29, 2014 3:03 a.m.
Burn is the same in legacy as it is in every other format. Bad but good enough to win games sometimes. It's definitely the cheapest deck to build so you could always just build it and then convert it to modern burn later on if you want.
March 29, 2014 3:24 a.m.
The best way to get into D&T is work on trading for the modern and standard stuff, it will be much easier to acquire, with Spirit of the Labyrinth
and Brimaz, King of Oreskos
in standard, theyll be easier to trade for, followed by all your modern cards AEther Vial
, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
whos spiking but still under 10, and things like Aven Mindcensor
and swords.
Burn is a cheaper way to break into legacy, but even if spending $100, thats a playset of Stoneforge Mystic
and is just a $100 less you have to spend on D&T. Things like Swords to Plowshares
and Flickerwisp
wouldnt be a priority pick up as theyre cheap, and relativly easy to acquire cards.
Without legacy or high end modern staples, you may end up having to bite a bullet and buy 4 ports / karakas but it happens, find a shop that gives good trade value (i got 70% on my standard stuff and picked up a SP karakas, a % i was willing to lose for legacy staple)
March 29, 2014 12:12 p.m.
MTG_Player says... #29
Try oops all spells I have it, it is very complex, yet it often wins on the first turn.
March 30, 2014 11:38 p.m.
julianjmoss says... #30
Another deck that is cheapish (less so than RDW) is Nic-Fit which is a good way to get into legacy because it really forces you to familiarize yourself with all the other decks in the format. Otherwise i suggest playing on cockatrice or if you have friendly people at your local LGS, borrowing their decks.
April 1, 2014 6:05 p.m.
chicagobearz says... #31
Stick with Commander. The Death and Taxes build does rule though. Might run you 2 stacks for all NM to VG.
April 24, 2014 3:30 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #32
To echo what others have said, do your research first. Look at deck lists and see what suits your play style. Pick an archetype, and try to make it yours. Decks can range from $200 to $2,500 or more. The land base is usually the most expensive with duals and fetches. A mono colored deck can be cheaper, to a degree.
Red Deck Wins is a blast to play. The fetch lands, Chain Lightning , and Goblin Guide are the most expensive cards. A burn list made Top 8 recently.
Here's my RDW:
Crimson and Ash Playtest
Legacy*
SCORE: 16 | 46 COMMENTS | 3170 VIEWSI also run a mono green 12 Post that kicks ass... In any case, it took me awhile to acquire the cards I wanted/needed to flesh out the decks and make them competitive worthy. Like 18 months or more lol. I played budget versions that worked ok, but wouldn't quality at a PT or anything.
I encourage you to break into Legacy! The cards increase in value, don't rotate, and the format is quite diverse.
April 24, 2014 3:46 a.m.
fetches aren't worth running in mono red unless you're splashing colours
April 24, 2014 11:02 a.m.
There are lots of cards burn would rather be playing mainboard other than Grim Lavamancer not to mention you're going to have plenty of other spells in your graveyard by the time you want to be shooting stuff with Grim Lavamancer . You may as well just splash black for Deathrite Shaman
April 24, 2014 2:39 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #36
Grim Lavamancer is a RDW staple... It's made Top 8 lists; that should say something. The whole point of Lavamancer is to use the spells in your graveyard for removal or to the dome. Don't be so hasty to doubt it's effectiveness, Lavamancer has won me games.
Deathrite Shaman would throw off the mana base in RDW, defeating the effectiveness of Fireblast and hitting you with Price of Progress . DRS is great in a Jund/Morglen/Elves list though.
April 24, 2014 4:23 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #37
And to clarify, Burn runs relatively few creatures whereas Red Deck Wins typically runs a 20/20 split or so.
April 24, 2014 4:25 p.m.
fetches arnt required for burn, theyre more of an if you want kinda thing as well, there can be life total issues as burn is often taking 8+ points of damage from its own spells, so 1-2-3-4 points of life lost from fetches can be rougher and really be an issue against faster decks, when you cant cast Flame Rift because you need to fear a lethal strike, or Sulfuric Vortex is making it a close game, every point of life matters when youre defense are basically non existant
April 24, 2014 4:37 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #39
They're definitely not necessary, agreed. I run very few fetches because of the life loss. I like the shuffle and Lavamancer fuel.
I run two Flame Rift and zero Sulfuric Vortex because of the Aggro mirror.
I've seen RDW lists that run eight fetches. I dunno about all that. I'm ok with 3-4.
April 24, 2014 4:43 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #40
My plan is to play Burn while I learn the meta. Find a deck I like then work on acquiring the cards for it over the course of a couple years. Should be fun, sleeved my burn deck up earlier this week.
April 24, 2014 5:54 p.m.
I just made top 8 again with burn its effective and espically when people play non basic lands you just win
ballard302 says... #2
I don't think that would work. I think you need to be able to pay the alternative casting cost right then.
July 1, 2010 12:51 a.m.