Banned and Restricted - Jan 9th 2017
General forum
Posted on Jan. 9, 2017, 2:08 p.m. by Bovine073
That's a lot of bannings. What does everyone think about this?
Effective Date: January 20, 2017
Magic Online Effective Date: January 11, 2017
Standard:
Emrakul, the Promised End is banned.
Smuggler's Copter is banned.
Reflector Mage is banned.
Modern:
Gitaxian Probe is banned.
Golgari Grave-Troll is banned.
Next B&R Announcement: March 13, 2017
When was the last time three cards have been banned in Standard? How will these bannings affect standard and modern?
For Standard, bye-bye, Vehicles (maybe it will still be psuedo-playable?)! U/W flash receives a huge hit. GB Delirium and Marvel have suffered huge losses as well.
For Modern, Gitaxian Probe banning affects infect, delver, suicide bloo/zoo, pyro ascension, and more. GGT Ban cripples Dredge (again).
sonicfan3602 says... #2
Well as someone who plays R/W Dwarf/Vehicles in standard (but not as a main deck) the ban of Smuggler's Copter stings. But I suppose it makes sense. 3/3 Flying Draw n Discard creature for 2 mana and a tap of a token is very good. Ban worthy? Maybe not. But I understand.
But hey don't mind me ill be over here with EDH, Living the good life.
January 9, 2017 7:10 p.m.
So how exactly will this effect shelf as a format? Do the standard bannings count as shelf bannings?
January 9, 2017 7:23 p.m.
Lord_Khaine says... #5
For those complaining about the bans in Standard, keep in mind that Smuggler's Copter and Emrakul, the Promised End were mentioned quite frequently in Wizards' now infamous, informal twitter poll where they asked players what they thought of the current Standard. Those two cards certainly came up in the complaints, and this can certainly be seen as Wizards responding to it. Reflector Mage can be debatable, but played a role in helping the draw-go sort of control decks Wizards very much wants to avoid. (Though Spell Queller contributed too.)
Gitaxian Probe was knocked off for its role in Infect and some other decks that were just getting too ridiculous, and Golgari Grave-Troll in the dredge deck was also rustling wizard's jimmies in their goal to not quite have decks winning on turn 4 (the stated logic behind the Splinter Twin banning).
I had copies of all the Standard cards that were banned, and maybe I'm a bit biased as I don't play Standard (only eternal, non-rotating formats), but I believe it was an attempt to help the game's long-term health in delivering the Standard bans.
January 9, 2017 8:32 p.m.
Mr.grizzly says... #6
So Reflector Mage is to strong but Spell Queller is ok?
January 9, 2017 8:48 p.m.
OneItsStarted says... #7
Standard has been going downhill for a long time now, and Wizards is getting pretty desperate. Standard Showdown, Cycle changes, overpowered cards in aether revolt, and now this. It's been a long time since there was a "good" standard, as KTK made most decks overpriced, then Company took over, and now we have four decks way above all others. Personally, I am glad that Wizards is still trying to fix their mistakes, and these bannings seem like a step in the right direction. at least they have encouraged me to try standard again.
Btw, all of you people who think that the new "Twin" is amazing... don't expect it to last. They banned Emrakul as part of the Marvel combo and will without a single doubt do it to Felidar Gaurdian after the first pro-tour
January 9, 2017 8:53 p.m.
i just want to know what the new low for (formerly) standard emrakul is! i want some for edh decks! :)
But seriously, i am shocked they didnt just print answers to these cards instead of banning them. Tormod's Crypt and Stony Silence solve almost all the problems in standard.
January 9, 2017 9:03 p.m.
maddoxmtg shelf, if I am not mistaken, is basically 'Historical Standard' where you can play any standard deck that existed at one point or another.
Smileycorp changes made regarding U/W flash, and are you complaining that I made my thread faster?
January 9, 2017 9:51 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #10
I figured they'd ban Emrakul if they didn't put any graveyard hate in Aether Revolt...which begs the question: Why not just print some decent graveyard hate in Aether Revolt instead of banning one of the most hyped cards of the past as-far-as-I-can-remember? Sure, she's a pain to deal with, but I guess putting effort into making it work in the meta is harder than crushing the noodle-monster with the banhammer.
I'm a little happy about the Copter...simply because I own none and was looking forward to having to shell out to play literally anything in standard for this cycle. But meta-wise...I guess I'm pretty ambivalent?
Reflector Mage...why? I...um...sure? Because we can? I don't see how this card was near oppressive enough to require a ban.
Probe...yeah, I suppose. Phyrexian mana was probably a design mistake.
Troll...another design mistake, but it was /my/ design mistake. I'm sad, but I'll have to adapt to finish that dredge deck. At least I didn't get any yet.
January 9, 2017 10:02 p.m.
Firebones675 says... #11
Last time a standard ban happened was back in 2011 with Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic. Are the bans implying that Reflector Mage is on that level of power?
January 9, 2017 10:15 p.m.
Just because jace was banned in standard and mage is now too doesn't mean their power level is the same or even comparable. Two totally different reasons for their banning and in two totally different standard formats.
January 9, 2017 10:32 p.m.
IsThisWolfe says... #13
Emrakul, the Promised End: I understand, while it has never been a problem for my deck this card can get out insanely fast.
Smuggler's Copter: I agree with this though it sucks for everyone who spent 40$+ for a playset. Also this is the one card that my deck has the most problems with so I have mixed feelings.
Reflector Mage: This is debatable. In its current state it's not overpowered but I guess wizards saw something in revolt that would break it.
January 9, 2017 10:35 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #14
Well, they banned things. The game is turning to yugioh and magic is gonna die and become nothing bit Standard Twin because we dont have Emrakul, Copter, and Reflector Mage. Magic is DEAD!!!
/sarcasm
January 9, 2017 10:36 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #15
Also, Rules Committee, please let us keep this Emrakul in EDH :(
January 9, 2017 10:40 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #16
These bannings can only hurt the format. Sure looter scooter and Emrakul sucked but this is what sideboarding is for, no?
Never lost to an Emrakul...had a fun time winning with one thanks to Confiscation Coup though lol
This kinda reminds me of when WotC banned Verdant Force back in the day....Wizards did a backflip and it got Unbanned- so hang onto those Scooters peeps- they may come back!!
All I know is that I'm Sure glad I sold my all best Standard cards in the lead up to AE spoilers phew
January 9, 2017 10:45 p.m.
xboomstickx says... #17
It was a shock, just goes to show that wizards card testers don't know what they are doing when making cards.
I did what i could http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-12-16-road-rage/#c2916054
January 9, 2017 11:20 p.m.
Wait a minute, wait a minute...
Do you mean to tell me that a collectible card game is a cash-cow? And the business that makes it is looking for profit?
Whoa
January 10, 2017 12:05 a.m.
It is definitely possible that mages/scooters get unbanned, wotc's new 5-week after pro tour policy could be a sign of this.
January 10, 2017 12:11 a.m.
I know the Reflector Mage ban seems the most odd to some people, and a lot have said it was more broken during Collected Company times. But the way I see it, when you put some thought into it, it makes some sense. Especially when you read their reasoning for their bans. They basically said that it was long over due. So if you thought it was worse with Collected Company, you may be right, but they can't go back in time and change the fact it wasn't... so now is when it happened. Plus, Aether Revolt is bringing us the revolt mechanic. If you thought Reflector Mage was bad at instant speed, imagine how bad multiple Reflector Mages in a single turn will be with the bounce and blink effects designed to help enable revolt, not to mention Panharmonicon is a thing. It's a lot easier to ban a card now, that they know from experience and the current meta to be "oppressive to fun", than to see if it gets worse with new archetypes showing up trying to take advantage of those effects. I'm sure they expect this to open up more options with the Revolt mechanic and things like the Panharmonicon decks. Instead of them all being focused on the same thing in the same colors because of the huge tempo advantage you get from a single card.
As far as the incoming combos that everyone was expecting to preemptively get banned. I think there's two parts to why they didn't see any bans yet. First, they're all for the most part creature based combos with multiple answers currently in the format that can answer them. I think they're expecting decks to be able to prepare themselves well enough for the combos that multiple decks will be able to keep it in check. Preventing the combo deck from being oppressive in the format and preventing the format from being warped into a situation where your options are limited, (i.e. the combo deck and the one that beats it). Second, it's rather apparent that the Kaladesh and Aether Revolt sets are combo oriented with the design of a lot of the cards. So it's by design that so many combo options are available. Since they have every intention on combo decks being a part of this standard rotation I think they're taking a more "wait and see" approach to some of the combo oriented stuff to see if it really ends up being extremely oppressive. Since they planned for the combo oriented decks to be apart of standard, there are answers (even if we haven't realized all of them yet) built into the sets. This gives them reason to pause and see how things develop before actually making a move.
I think the biggest thing that will determine how overpowered the combos are,is how strong control actually ends up being. Some of the larger combo decks that focus on things like Panharmonicon and abusing ETB effects, won't have room for tons of counter magic and removal to grind you out so they'll be easier to keep in check (similar to the current meta). The simpler combos, like Saheeli Rai+Felidar Guardian, could prove stronger than they're expecting if control is really strong. Fewer slots required in the deck for the combo, makes it easier to fit in a shell that can not only protect it but grind out their opponents long enough to assemble it. If that kind of deck is consistent, it can be oppressive to a format. Oddly enough, it could also be control that keeps these decks in check. Control decks appear to be making a strong comeback with this set like combo is, with control being one of the best ways to combat combo decks it's mostly likely by design and one of the ways WotC intends for the format to keep itself in check. I expect this rotation to be heavily influenced by multiple control and multiple comboish decks. They don't want standard to be stale and this shakes up the format from the aggro/midrange style we typically see, but provides multiple options of deck choices for people to play, keeping standard diverse like they want even if the focus is on two archetypes (combo and control).
January 10, 2017 12:15 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #21
I'm kinda shocked at Wizards. They're supposed to do extensive testing and it occured to nobody that a colourless flying 3/3 one-drop with upside wouldn't be played everwhere? Sheesh
I think Marvel would have been a better ban than Emmy - she's relatively fair if you can't cheat her out T4 (Also, Wizards - again! - you didn't think that a permanent that can cheat any card out t4 - after a few sets with massive dudes - would be problematic?) but once copter is gone, she would have run rampant otherwise, maybe?
My storm deck crieds for the loss of Gitaxian Probe though.
January 10, 2017 12:18 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #22
Rabid_Wombat the problem isn't necessarily the bans themselves. The bans are a symptom of a poor design philosophy on WotC part. You'll have noticed that creatures continue to become better and better. However, the answers to those creatures become fewer and less diverse. WotC has stopped printing hate cards and effective means of board interaction. As such, this was the logical conclusion to their design philosophy, a stale metagame unless action was taken. It also is not aided by their flip flopping on rotation schedules.
January 10, 2017 12:18 a.m.
readerrw07 It's not ban-worthy in EDH, I wouldn't worry too much. Mindslaver would go before Emrakul, and even then taking someone's turn isn't nearly as powerful when there are 4 people sitting at a table.
CanadianShinobi This 100%
At some point I start to wonder if giving red Lightning Bolt or blue Mana Leak would really be game-breaking after this much creature power creep. Anguished Unmaking was the last decent removal spell printed that I can remember. But alas, fancy creatures sell packs and control is "boring" to watch. I'm not trying to boycott standard, but unless people put their money where their mouth is WotC will keep printing overpowered creatures and underwhelming removal. We've seen that they do listen to players, just look at their recent revert to the old rotation schedule.
sonicfan3602 Take me with you, I have beer!
January 10, 2017 1:34 a.m. Edited.
EpicFreddi says... #24
All Hail Copter and Emrakul. Now I can get both for cheap for my frontier collection.
January 10, 2017 3:46 a.m.
I'm just curious how decks focusing on graveyard manipulation will do since no real hate has still been printed in standard? Delirium lost a big win-con but a lot of the core deck is fine. Could zombies make a come back now that they have time to get a board established? The loss of a reliable looter certainly hurts that deck too but there's plenty of draw spells in red that loot, there's Wharf Infiltrator too, and Geier Reach Sanitarium.
January 10, 2017 3:58 a.m.
i realize that the reflect mage ban is the spooky part of these bannings the more i think about it.
read wotc's reasoning. it basically says, "reflect mage causes feel bads," which is sad to me. the same can be said about all counter/control magic.
so does that mean we can say goodbye to solid control cards? i hope not. as control is my fav style of magic deck.
January 10, 2017 8:40 a.m.
Titilanious says... #28
I think they ban Reflector Mage to even out the strength of the meta game. While it was odd, the U/W flash decks(which were already good) would have been untouched and would possibly become a dominant force in the meta because the decks that oppose it became weaker.
January 10, 2017 8:50 a.m.
AngryKitten says... #29
What a time to be alive. As my friend said, "Turns out people don't like being Mindslavered in Standard". Big surprise, right Wizards? First that, soon Splinter Twin in Standard? I have never laughed so hard about this garbage format as I am now.
And once again, WoTC hardcore trolling with the Golgari Grave-Troll ban. Ban unban ban yay fun times, good way to get people triggered.
For reals though, if I cared about formats other than EDH I would probably be super livid right now at the idiocy of this whole thing.
January 10, 2017 8:51 a.m.
It is amusing to see bans after so many years for standard, but to be honest we've come to the point where Standard is now only interesting when it brings cards to OTHER formats. That should tell you how much of a joke it's become.
January 10, 2017 9:22 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #31
I think the new Emrakul failed because of 3 things:
Aetherworks Marvel - casting him for 4 mana? Sure, why not. Totally not broken. (If the card would just let it enter, it would've been half fair).
Protection from instants - so you can mindslaver me but I can do literally nothing about it while you strip me of all sorcery removal in my turn. That's stupid.
Uncounterable - just the tip of the iceberg from all of the above.
And looter scooter was just too strong. as a 1/1 or 2/2 he would've been "fine".
January 10, 2017 9:49 a.m.
Named_Tawyny just so you know, Smuggler's Copter is not a one-drop.
I really don't know why so many people are complaining about Standard.
There are still strong cards being printed for it such as Yahenni's Expertise.
You just have to be a bit more creative with your Standard builds these days, which I don't see as a bad thing.
January 10, 2017 10:04 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #33
Argeaux wasnt exactly that the reason why they banned copter and emrakul? because you couldn't get creative because you either had to play them or dedicate too much to beat them?
January 10, 2017 10:05 a.m.
EpicFreddi Emrakul, the Promised End is female and Summary Dismissal completely Counters her.
January 10, 2017 10:07 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #35
It's a spaghettimonster, whatever.
Yeah, but that's still a very limited option if you had to play an overpriced counterspell just in case your opponent packs "it" inside the deck.
January 10, 2017 10:11 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #36
Any counter will nail her; her protection clause comes into play when she hits the field. If she's countered she doesn't.
But still; EpicFreddi is correct. You have to play either, or dedicate alot to take them down; Emrakul especially because your opponent will likely strip your sorcery removal from your hand then you're down to simply top-decking just to survive. Copter wasn't so much; against me anyway since my deck is chock full of removal, but the key here is that there are not enough cards that can deal with smuggler's copter and those that can are either in the color, or simply dedicated to artifact removal; which gimps the overall deck
January 10, 2017 10:14 a.m.
Just answering your claim that she was "Uncounterable".
January 10, 2017 10:14 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #38
Oh god I'm an idiot. I thought she specifically said "cant be countered". Nevermind me.
Thing with the two is that you need instant speed to deal with one of them, but sorcery speed to beat the other. So you were weak to either one of them or get destroyed by both.
January 10, 2017 10:16 a.m. Edited.
Or, as I said above, Summary Dismissal Exiles her, and stops her on cast trigger.
January 10, 2017 10:20 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #41
All this talk brings us back to my aforementioned point regarding WotC design philosophy. These bans would have never taken place if WotC printed hate like they used to. Rest in Piece or something similar would have worked wonders for the format.
January 10, 2017 11:01 a.m.
Yes. Reflector Mage is much better against aggressive decks, which I'm pretty sure WOTC is trying to promote.
January 10, 2017 11:12 a.m.
exactly. i have been saying the same thing. all wotc needed to do was reprint Tormod's Crypt and Stony Silence to solve all of standard's problems. but wotc, doesnt want to for some reason.
January 10, 2017 12:29 p.m.
A one know of a good one drop cantrip for my gitaxian probes in this deck:
"And Just Like That... They Were Gone"
Preferably on the cheap side...
Only the first time a ban list update has really affected me....
January 10, 2017 1:13 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #45
The last great Standard format was THS/KTK because there were multiple different archetypes that were all competitive and were all different types of decks. If you wanted to play big creatures, R/G Devotipn had your back. If you wanted to play a more controlling deck, Esper and Jeskai were what you were looking for. If you wanted aggro, Jeskai or mono-red or even Mardu could help you out. If you wanted midrange, Abzan was where you were destined. Magic was at its best right before the new Two-block model was released, and before the nightmare that was BFZ came out. Now, the "new paradigm" has taken away one drop mana dorks and unconditional burn spells, and replaced if with f***ing Spell Queller and Aetherworks Marvel and given us no hate to take care of it! Before Aether Revolt, neither red, white or green had an answer to Marvel, and Queller could fly high without worry of being killed by anything other than Harnessed Lightning. The best Counterspell was Revolutionary Rebuff, which sucked! With Aether Revolt, hopefully things will get better, but what we really need to do is get rid of most of the changes between KTK and now. There are no doubt tons of inaccuracies and poorly-worded points with this semi-rant, but I'm sure you get the general idea of my stance on the matter.
January 10, 2017 1:46 p.m.
Firebones675 says... #46
Dredge4life For as many faults in the current standard as there are, I still love kaladesh. Wizards set out to make a set where players could feel like inventors and appeal to there "johny side" For me personaaly, I love tinkering around with janky win conditions and infinite combos (Not saying I want it to be on the level of combo winter). The format as a whole has it's problems sure, but that's ok. I see standard as a place where interesting cards that aren't powerful enough for modern to be given a chance to shine. To accomplish that the overall powerlevel of counterspells and burn need to be adjusted. Totally get where your coming from though.
January 10, 2017 2:01 p.m.
cplvela0811 says... #47
Gitaxian Probe should not have been banned. It did give Infect and combo the knowledge needed in order to know if they had to play around certain spells or if it was just safe in general to go all out.
If they wanted to ban anything it should have been a land, like they did with Eldrazi & Tron; Eye of Ugin. This ban made various things slower, while still keeping decks playable. Bant Eldrazi and various iterations of it. There are now alot more tron decks being played. It is no longer just Tron.
Affinity has been off of the radar and I highly believe it to be an "out of sight, out of mind" type of ordeal. If you dont see Affinity being played, it wont be targeted. Infect is taking advantage of the way the field is positioned at the moment. Both Affinity & infect are considered to be the decks that "define" the Modern format. So with this being said--I feel that Inkmoth Nexus should have been banned or at least on the radar. One could argue that the new printing of Fatal Push will "change" the format, but this thing ends games in both decks and is generally safe to swing out. Too many times can this be broken with Cranial Plating, Arcbound Ravager, and cards like Become Immense. Yes, it is beatable, but I personally believe it would have made both decks slower and more fair towards the current format. eldrazi and Tron were hit with Eye of Ugin, so why not Inkmoth Nexus?
lastly, there should have been some cards unbanned, for Modern. I cannot pin point exactly what should see play, but at the very least give us something to play with while you figure out which toys to take next.
January 10, 2017 2:02 p.m.
On the topic of Modern, I'm really happy with the bans and don't think they ruin any archetypes, just make certain degenerative decks more beatable. I've always hated Gitaxian Probe, it enables a ton of combo decks and removes a player's ability to bluff, for free.. Decks like infect will start having to play Peek because the hand information is so critical to their strategy. This makes infect a whole lot slower, which is good, but honestly infect is kind of dead once Fatal Push comes out (good riddance).
Dredge will have to replace GGT with Golgari Thug. Makes Dredge less consistent, but still plenty powerful in my opinion. Gives other decks a fighting chance tho.
Overall, the Modern bans give the format a ton more diversity by making the two best decks in the format more beatable. This is extremely healthy for the format and opens up the possibility for new competitive brews to see play
January 10, 2017 2:07 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #49
cplvela0811- With Blood Moon and Ghost Quarter seeing heavy play in Modern, banning a land that doesn't do anything until turns 3-4 isn't a good decision. Yes, Inkmoth could start attacking on turn 2, but you're not losing to 1 damage right then, and lethal pump doesn't happen unless you have the nut draw with hierarch and a number of Mutagenic Growths. Inkmoth isn't oppressive, nor does it make any deck that much faster. It's actually the slowest clock in infect since they need to pay a mana for it every turn while often holding up more for protection, and it is nowhere near the level of broken that Eye of Ugin made the Eldrazi decks during Eldrazi winter. No bans needed there. :)
January 10, 2017 2:17 p.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #50
sigh I guess I get to throw this on top of the pile of reasons I'm never going back to Modern.
Zaueski says... #1
If anything in Aether Revolt made Smuggler's Copter too good it was Tezzeret's Touch, crews it permanently, but with the caveat of it returning to your hand instead of dying if your opponent had removal.
Emrakul ban was undeserved I think, the format had a ton of answers to Emmy and while hard to deal with on turn 4, the deck wasn't super consistent anyways so this feels entirely unnecessary... G/B Delirium and Marvel were the only decks holding U/W Flash back and while they lost a card too, it was nowhere near as devastating of a loss.
Reflector Mage seems pointless to ban, sure its obnoxious with Panharmonicon but there are viable creatureless strategies in Standard. Even if you got a repeatable bounce going it still dies to Fatal Push after it bounces your guy, it just wasn't super relevant anymore without Collected Company.
January 9, 2017 6:44 p.m.