Dragon Shield or KMC?
Gear forum
Posted on March 15, 2015, 1:36 p.m. by The_Raven
I've began to hate my Ultra Pro sleeves. Most of them are either splitted or damaged. So I want to buy some new ones.
I know TCC have made videos about sleeves, but I don't really feel, that he tells the differences between Dragon Shields and KMC's. At my LGS, they are the exact same price, but DS got 100 sleeves and a deck box and KMC only got 80 sleeves.
However, I have heard, that DS gets dirty very easily and are sometimes miscuts.
I have also heard, that KMC should have a pretty big opening at the top, so dirt can come into the sleeves...
If anyone would answer any of these questions about KMC and DS, I would be glad!
How often do they break?
Do they get dirty (even if I play on a playmat)?
How is the shuffle feel (mash shuffling)?
How well are they cut?
Do they have a large opening on top (so my cards get dirty, when I don't double sleeve)?
Which one do you prefer?
Also, should I get the hyper matts, matts, metallics or super KMC sleeves?
ZooGambler says... #3
KMC Hyper Mattes. They don't get dirty as easily, shuffle better, and aren't curved when you first open them. I'd only recommend DS if you're an EDH player at heart. The curvature in the DS sleeves won't hurt your cards but I personally just dislike that about them. The deck box it comes with isn't really that big a deal (IMO) because I don't use the deck box, I have a better one anyways.
March 15, 2015 2:04 p.m.
I am a huge fan of kmc hyper mattes. They don't stick at all.
March 15, 2015 2:04 p.m.
SpartanCEL says... #5
I was in basically the same boat, I had black Ultra Pro. Well they suck. I went Dragon Shield because i heard nice things about them. and they come in a cool dragon box that doubles as a deck box. I know almost nothing about KMC other than that they're also good.
So to address your points for Dragon Shield (I own the black btw and I now have them double sleeved with Pro-fits)
These puppies don't break I have yet to have one break
Dirty? No, not yet atleast but I don't play on a daily basis and keep them safe
The one thing slightly bad about them, at first they're really slippery but as you shuffle they get better. I can just cut my deck in half and jam them together sideways and they find a way to go one after the other lol(which is what I assume you mean by mass shuffle?) Important to note, atleast for me, it doesn't shuffle the top and bottom very well this way just the middle. It's probably my shuffling style or lack-there-of but I just shuffle the top and bottom in. It feels nice not to worry about them breaking and just focus on shuffling. So yes they feel good to shuffle
They're pretty much all the same, slight variations once in a while but not enough to be a lot.
There is some space without duel sleeves so they can be close to the top or bottom, but they haven't be a real issue and don't slide a lot without you moving them. A few specks of dirt have traveled they're way in I believe but all sayed NM/M
Also important to note DS is roughly 100 sleeves so you can get a few more or less. That's probably more important if you're using them for commander but Epochalyptik didn't say about that. So maybe it's just a myth but I'm almost positive I got more than 100
(I have had success with the kahns symbol sleeves though, they're much better than normal Ultra Pro, but Dragon Shield look and feel much better)
Hope this helps:p. I'm curious to see what people say about KMC
March 15, 2015 2:05 p.m.
Got 103 in mine.
As Epochalyptik says. DS are really fantastic but KMC do seem to shuffle better.
March 15, 2015 2:07 p.m.
julianjmoss says... #7
Another thing about Dragon shields is that certain colors get dirtier than others or are just worse quality in general. This is because the new colors are better quality and it seems like they use the same machines for the old colors. I dont really know why. The pink ones seem to accumulate dirt very quickly while the light blue ones and the dark green ones have functioned fantastically for me. Also about the number of Dragon shields, they give roughly 100 but the machines do it by weight so you typically get a few extra since the machine rounds up to prevent shorting people.
March 15, 2015 2:09 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
You do get extras in every box of DS just in case some do break, but I've never actually had a DS break on me. I don't DS advertises the extras anywhere (nothing like KMC offering 80 to cover the 75 plus extras), but it's true.
March 15, 2015 2:23 p.m.
The miscuts and bending is solved in the newer dragon shield. They do dirty easier though.
March 15, 2015 2:30 p.m.
I got purple DS for my EDH, and got 105 with mine. They're great, but do accumulate dirt and stick annoyingly quick, even after cleaning them.
I bought some KMC for a GP, and I like them a lot better for any format except Commander (because buying 160 sleeves for a 100 card deck is a waste of money IMO lol).
March 15, 2015 2:37 p.m.
SpartanCEL says... #11
Oh yea I forgot to say if DS get cold they stick a lot, and they just stick sometimes if you don't use em for a little so unstick them and they're good
March 15, 2015 2:43 p.m.
filledelanuit says... #12
I personally use KMC but they are both very high quality. I have broken about 5 KMCs in about 500 sleeves. If you leave them in a cold place for a very long time they will lose a bit of their strength. I left them in my car for two weeks during the great southern snowpoclapse.
If you plan on double sleeving just be warned that it is a little harder with DS than KMC but not significantly.
Over all they're both good and it's just a matter of preference.
March 15, 2015 3:01 p.m.
TheGodofNight says... #13
I primarily use Ultra Pro sleeves for drafting. They are cheap, widely available (so if I need to pick up an extra pack of them to finish a draft, I can find the right color and texture 99% of the time).
Now, for standard, depending on the quality of the deck, depends on what I use. Budget/causal decks get the Ultra Pros that I haven't yet drafted with, mostly because I can either get about 10 drafts out of them, or a month of FNMs. Typically I use Dragon shields for cube drafts and EDH as they are the right number of sleeves. If the deck is high value, KMC Hyper Matte sleeves all the way.
As such, it is my preferred sleeve for all of my Modern decks, usually double sleeved. You will get some dust issues, but double sleeved isn't a problem with that. As for EDH, I don't play a lot of EDH like most people, so I don't go through Dragon shields as fast, since it takes a lot longer for mine to get dirty.
So Ultra Pro(s) - for drafting and budget/casual decks.Dragon Shield(s) - EDH/Cube or medium value decks.KMC Hyper Matte(s) - for High Value decks.KMC Hyper Matte(s) - (Double Sleeved) for Modern decks.
Of course, this is completely subject to preference and availability. Hope this info helps.
March 15, 2015 3:10 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #14
I've had dragonshields and although they're great sleeves and haven't broken on me and they've protected my deck, they stick together like you wouldn't believe. I can't stand the shuffle feel.
March 15, 2015 3:37 p.m.
I prefer KMC 100% (Hyper Matte to be exact), they are so smooth when shuffling, and in the past year of using them, I've only broken like 5 sleeves, so I'd say they are pretty durable. I have not had a problem with dirt getting into the sleeves (with either double sleeved decks, or non double sleeved decks), but after a lot of use the sleeves will get little specs of grime-ish stuff here and there, but they wipe off easily.
I have never owned Dragon Shield sleeves, so I'm a little biased, but a few years ago, that's all my friend would use. From the few times I played with one of his decks, they seemed to shuffle pretty well, and I never noticed them getting dirty, or breaking very often.
DS sleeves do come in 100 packs and with a card box, which is an advantage compared to the 80 packs that KMC offer. I always just buy two packs at time, that way I have 100 for EDH and 60 for Standard, or Draft, so it's not a big deal for me. As for reviews, you can look up Tolarian Community College on Youtube, they do reviews on all kinds of MTG products, including DS and KMC sleeves.
March 15, 2015 3:53 p.m.
The_Wolf_Pack says... #16
Get KMC hypermats and doublesleeve your cards using perfect fits, and then the cards are protected and they shuffle incredibly nicely like butter. I used to have Dragonshields, and they were hard to clean and get dirty very fast, but were almost impossible to split. It depends if your gentle on your cards. if you want heavy-duty, dragonshields are for you. But if your gentle on your sleeves, KMC hypermats are the way to go.
March 15, 2015 4:44 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #17
The KMC Hyper Mattes are insane. I've actually never been happier with card sleeves. I use them on any deck that I double sleeve.
March 15, 2015 4:45 p.m.
Thanks for all the responses! I thiknk I will buy the KMC, since they are going to be used for modern!
However, I need to ask 2 questions:
How good is the DS deck box? Is it just cardboard?
Does the KMC feels like Ultra pro (but just with better durability)?
March 15, 2015 5:33 p.m.
SpartanCEL says... #19
The DS box is almost exactly 1.5 times as big as the two little boxes you get in a fat pack (just compared.) Slightly larger, the cards will probably move around. They're just a nice little thing to have if you need a cheep box to use. They're nothing like an ultra-pro deck box. They fit sleeved cards(duh it's a box with sleeves) which is nice, but like all cardboard boxes they won't last long (mine are still okay but I don't use those a lot)
So yes it's just cardboard, but I can store my extra DS sleeves or cards in it for convenience
March 15, 2015 5:49 p.m.
Yes, the DS box is just cardboard. Not worth using as a deck box, but useful for storing extra sleeves.
The KMC don't really feel like Ultra Pro to me. The Pro's are just cheap, smooth plastic that split into eachother when shuffled, and just don't feel very good unless new. The KMC's (at least the Hyper Matte variety) feel much much nicer, and shuffle way better than Ultra Pro, on top of looking better.
March 15, 2015 5:51 p.m.
SpartanCEL says... #21
Adding onto it
1.5 times as wide. Hight just a little taller because, well, it's a sleeve box. So if you were wondering if it was worth it to buy DS because of the box eh probably not. But I think you went with KMC so this is just more info anyway haha
March 15, 2015 5:54 p.m.
TheGodofNight says... #22
Deck boxes are completely a subjective thing. I personally like the Legion deck boxes. They can hold a double sleeved deck, tokens, and a few other cards and/or sleeves pretty well. They are cheaper (cost wise) and they have a lot of different boxes to suit you and your decks personality. Although there are literally hundreds of deck box choices out there.
And to answer your other question, no, KMC Hyper Matte sleeves don't feel like Ultra Pros. You can feel the difference when you slide one between your fingers.
March 15, 2015 6:13 p.m.
I swear by KMCs. Any deck I build thats over 300$ certainly isnt going into Ultra pros. I always get a pack of perfect fits with them as welL, to double sleeve. I normally buy Hyper Matte, but i actually just picked up a pack of Super green, which are quite glossy. Im guessing they will get dirty quicker than hyper mattes, but the shuffle is soo goddamn smooth. Ive only had one KMC break one me ever, out of 4 packs and many games. I have never noticed that the opening at the top is unusually large, it may be though.
March 17, 2015 10:23 p.m.
My LGS does not sell KMC!! AAARGH!!
So.... What to choose instead?
Have anyone tried Ultimate Guard? Are those sleeves good?
Also, how is the inner sleeves?
March 18, 2015 5:07 p.m.
TheGodofNight says... #25
@ NorthernRaven It might be worth it to ask your LGS to stock them or try Amazon. I buy sleeves in bulk, so I can usually find decent deals on Amazon. Hope this helps.
March 18, 2015 5:11 p.m.
TheGodofNight, I wrote on their Facebook page.... They didn't answer.... I don't know why.... Probably because they aren't going to have them....
March 18, 2015 5:22 p.m.
Totaledcow says... #27
Simple question answer:
Do you double-sleeve (you should)? KMC Hyper + KMC Perfect Size
Do you prefer matte sleeves? KMC Hyper
Do you prefer gloss sleeves? Dragon Shields
Do you like colors other than mana colors? Dragon Shields
Do you only want to have to worry about purchasing sleeves locally? Dragon Shields
Problem solved, choose your own course. Quality is similar between the two, as is durability, although Dragon Shields get sticky (all gloss sleeves do) and pick up dirt, so if you don't have one already buy a playmat.
March 22, 2015 2:12 a.m.
I have lots of friends who love their DS sleeves. I bought some myself for my Commander deck solely to try them and because they come in exactly 100. In the year or so I've been using them I'm forever scraping dirt and debris out of them. I use KMC Hypermat in my valuable decks, but where I used to double-sleeve they just don't have the snug fit they used to have pre-double-sleeve (but that's my fault). For overall card protection I'd recommend KMC.
As far as shuffling, I like the smooth shuffling of KMC due to the rough texture of the backside. The smooth texture of the DS makes shuffling cumbersome and they don't mash together very easily. On the same token, brand new KMC can feel like UltraPro, i.e., like you're shuffling grease and the slightest off-balance pressure can initiate a game of 60-Pickup.
All this said, my friend swears by his DS and bridge shuffles them like butter. I don't have any fancy smooth shuffling techniques, so I go with the easy mash of KMC.
The best way to decide for yourself is borrow a friend's deck of each and try for yourself.
April 1, 2015 2:26 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #29
i acquired a whole bunch of DS's from a friend whose cards i bought. so I've been using those for now. i PREFER matte sleeves overall and so am looking at Hyper Mats which ill pick up whenever i see them for cheap. I'm not willing to pay tons for sleeves so it depends on price but $5-7 isn't too bad for me.
April 2, 2015 4:49 p.m.
hammerhead300 says... #30
Now that I've had both Dragon Shields and KMC Hyper Mats, my vote is for the KMCs. My Merfolk deck is double-sleeved, and originally I had them sleeved in Dragon Shield Fusions. I bought a pack of KMC Hyper Mat black sleeves and decided to swap my Dragon Shields over to my Standard deck, and for double sleeving, the difference is night-and-day. The KMCs are so much easier to work with if you double sleeve, and I really like the feel of them. Dragon Shields are still great if you don't double-sleeve, but if you do, I can't recommend the Hyper Mats enough.
Epochalyptik says... #2
Neither KMC nor DS break with regular use. I have DS sleeves on my EDH deck (which gets shuffled multiple times per turn cycle and with each full shuffle consisting of a number of mash shuffles) and none of them have ever split. KMC have similar durability.
DS sleeves get dirtier, which is one of my few gripes with them. They're prone to accumulating dust and dirt.
Both shuffle extremely well, but I think KMCs have an advantage in this department in terms of ease of shuffling. Of course, the downside is that they're easier to spill everywhere if you knock your deck over and they may be harder to handle at first.
Both brands are cut very well. The corners are square and the seams are sound. I've never had a fit issue with any of them.
The pockets on any sleeves will stretch if you double sleeve, but it's only an issue if you go from double to single sleeve. If you don't double sleeve at all, both brands will still protect your cards.
I tend to prefer DS only because I'm predominantly an EDH player, so buying one pack per deck is more convenient for me. However, for 60-card decks, I would recommend KMC hyper mattes. I give them an overall edge (though they're very close in quality).
March 15, 2015 1:45 p.m.