Untapped portential?

Economics forum

Posted on Dec. 25, 2015, 7:27 p.m. by Atony1400

I have a feeling people are overlooking some cards that may have a big impact of formats in the near future. This page is to discuss this. Ok, go!

Jay says... #2

what

December 25, 2015 7:28 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #3

I'll start by asking, may Stasis Snare might become a modern staple?

December 25, 2015 7:29 p.m.

Jay says... #4

No

Path to Exile is a thing

December 25, 2015 7:30 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #5

@Jay, I set an example.

December 25, 2015 7:30 p.m.

vampirelazarus says... #6

Jay is saying that rather than run Stasis Snare, people would run the much better Path to Exile.

As for cards with untapped potential, I really want Axebane Guardian + Enter the Infinite + Psychosis Crawler to be a thing.

December 25, 2015 7:42 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #7

If we all knew which cards were going to break the meta in the future they wouldn't be potentials - they'd be in our decks already....

December 25, 2015 7:49 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #8

@vampirelazarus,

Hmmmm, didn't see that combo. It's pretty slow (meaning the Enter the Infinate with a 12 CMC). I think you'd need alot of ramp spells to make that work in Modern. I believe at some point Path to Exile will be replaced with a better card in the future.

December 25, 2015 7:49 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #9

@ChiefBell,

I just have this gut feeling that were missing something.

December 25, 2015 7:50 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #10

There is literally nothing better than a 1 drop exile spell that has an irrelevant downside most of the time you cast it. Literally the only better card would be Swords to Plowshares or something that just let you exile with no downside.

It does not get better than 1 mana instants.

December 25, 2015 7:55 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #11

ChiefBell, I feel like there's one card were overlooking here...

December 25, 2015 8:02 p.m.

The only thing that would replace Path to Exile is the exact same card minus the second sentence of the effect. And even then you could just run both.

December 25, 2015 8:03 p.m.

Servo_Token says... #13

Condemn? This guessing game as to "What card am I thinking of" seems like it isn't going to go anywhere.

December 25, 2015 8:04 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #14

Change of subject, Impact Tremors in pauper?

December 25, 2015 8:12 p.m.

lemmingllama says... #15

I have a feeling that the Tron lands will be going up in price. They generate a lot of colorless mana, so the new Oath rares could have some splendid cards with Wastes mana. They hinted at large Eldrazi with Kozilek's Return, especially 7 CMC ones.

December 25, 2015 8:16 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #16

I somewhat agree, lemmingllama. I think Eldrazi Temple will be rising as well.

December 25, 2015 8:18 p.m.

NoPantsParade says... #17

I think Duress is severely overlooked and often overshadowed by Thoughtseize. Taking two life to take one card on turn 1 puts you at a disadvantage right in the beginning of the game. Let's not forget when you fetch then shock yourself in modern, setting you at 15 after a Thoughtseize. Duress is clearly the better option after all things considered, especially in the Burn matchup.

December 25, 2015 8:45 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #18

@NoPantsParade, I agree. Same with the pain lands, they're a cheap dual land, but hurt you every time!

Also, I don't see Smallpox played much anymore, where'd that phase go?

December 25, 2015 9:02 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #19

Despise also seems like a less expensive Thoughtseize.

December 25, 2015 9:04 p.m.

Well, in my defense, I still think Psychosis Crawler has untapped potential.

December 25, 2015 9:58 p.m.

shadow63 says... #21

December 25, 2015 10:03 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #22

@vampirelazarus, possibly, under the right circumstances.

@shadow63, o [Distress is better than Thoughtseize ability wize, but is one More expensive.

December 25, 2015 10:06 p.m.

I also feel like AEtherling has some untapped potential.

December 25, 2015 11:07 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #24

Maybe, it's all about the right conditions. That's why I believe that were also overlooking a major combo; like one that will be banned on discovery, major.

December 25, 2015 11:15 p.m.

Named_Tawyny says... #25

I think most cards with vigilance have untapped potential.

December 26, 2015 1:24 a.m.

MindAblaze says... #26

With the finite number of cards in existence that are legal in modern I think much of what is possible has been looked at. There are obviously cards that are underplayed due to alternatives outclassing them, but...that's kind of for a reason. I don't know what this conversation is hoping to accomplish other than maybe identifying a) some combos that are strong but probably a bit unwieldy for modern, b) budget options of currently heavily played cards and c) pet cards that are actually just jank.

For example, I like Guttersnipe but I know it just makes a worse storm deck. Also, Necrotic Ooze is a pretty strong win condition but it's just not supported, no Dread Return, lots of graveyard hate and it fails the bolt test. Somebody prove me wrong, please?

December 26, 2015 1:24 a.m.

Is there a particular reason you think there's some game-breaking "combo" that has yet to be discovered by anybody in the community, including the homebrewers and the professionals who are paid to study the game?

December 26, 2015 1:34 a.m.

shadow63 says... #28

Aetherling is ok there's just better stuff out there. However I'm surprised it's not more expensive even if just from edh

December 26, 2015 4:34 a.m.

Atony1400 says... #29

No, Epochalyptik, I just have a gut feeling that were missing something, and a card or combo is being overlooked. Haven't you ever had a feeling like that?

December 27, 2015 9:16 p.m.

Not for a whole format.

Most of the decks that come out of nowhere in the middle of the season are midrange or control decks that develop as a response to the current meta. Combos are identified all the way back in spoiler season; they aren't the kind of thing that someone just cooks up unless it's an existing combo that just happens to have become relevant with the way the meta is positioned.

December 27, 2015 9:54 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #31

WOTC will probably accidentally make a game breaking card (that makes a game breaking combo) soon enough. I mean, when making new cards, you can't test their interaction with each and every card in the game. Then they'll add it to the restricted list (like Black Lotus).

December 27, 2015 10:57 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #32

That's why Black Lotus is a 16k card, restricted or banned in every tournement format.

December 27, 2015 10:58 p.m.

Servo_Token says... #33

Black lotus is 5k, Not banned in every format, and this literally just happened twice in Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time.

Also, What is a game breaking combo? I feel like there's a literal nothing that can't be interacted with and therefore stopped in some fashion, even in modern.

December 27, 2015 11:10 p.m.

I don't think you understand how this works.

WOTC don't run exhaustive tests. They don't claim to predict the exact impact that each and every card will have on each and every format and how it will interact with each and every other card.

When it turns out that a card is too powerful for other formats (e.g., Mental Misstep, Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise), then it's simply banned in that format. Generally, it becomes apparent that the card is too powerful after the event report for the major event following the set's release. If a card is broken, the meta will abuse it immediately if it's able to. And if the card is too broken, it will be banned as soon as evidence (event reports) indicate that there is reason to ban it.

Bottom line:
THESE THINGS DON'T JUST "HAPPEN" OUT OF NOWHERE.

December 27, 2015 11:58 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #35

Yea. Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are really powerful. Is there a chance they will make another similar/more powerful card in the future sets like OGW, the new Dual Decks, SOA, and future sets?

December 29, 2015 7:05 p.m.

Duel Decks include only reprints.

We don't know for sure whether the design trend will continue. Every set has powerful cards. Occasionally, a set has cards too powerful for constructed play in one format or another, and those cards are selectively banned.

December 29, 2015 7:10 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #37

Like the artifact lands in Modern, They were just selectively banned after event results?

December 29, 2015 7:12 p.m.

Cards aren't just banned for no reason, if that's what you're implying.

The artifact lands were banned from Standard as a response to the dominance of artifact decks. Skullclamp, Arcbound Ravager, and Disciple of the Vault were also banned at or around that time.

The artifact lands were on the starting ban list for Modern because of their dominance in Ravager Affinity during the original Mirrodin Standard and because their power in conjunction with metalcraft was recognized as potentially destabilizing for the format during its first days.

December 29, 2015 7:16 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #39

Fun fact: this was similar to the case of Bitterblossom which was also on the modern banister since its conception due to perceived power levels. It has since been unbanned because the world of magic has changed.

December 29, 2015 7:22 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #40

No I wasn't implying that they were banned for no reason, but that, well, exactly what you said.

December 29, 2015 7:22 p.m.

This discussion has been closed