Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip,[kytheon, hero of akros]], Evolutionary Leap
Economics forum
Posted on July 18, 2015, 9:12 p.m. by seuvius
I know this is a random 3 cards but I just pulled these three out a fat pack and I was wondering should offload any of these cards now or do you think they will rise in price?
I feel like for their standard time, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip and Kytheon, Hero of Akros Flip will hold significant value. Jace just provides too much card advantage to not find a home in standard, I feel, and as far as Kytheon, he's a 2/1... 1 cmc creature that can protect himself (already very good) who's upside is potentially being a planeswalker. I think he's got real potential to see play outside of standard simply because if he never ever became a planeswalker in a game, he'd still be good.
Evolutionary Leap I'm unsure about. It's the kind of card that tugs on everyone's heart strings because it's so easy to compare to Survival of the Fittest. It's obvious the cards aren't the same though as Leap has the random element and requires a creature in play, but that doesn't mean Evolutionary Leap is bad. I wouldn't be surprised to see a deck in any format show up that is consistent enough to make use of it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it only saw a little standard play and found a home in EDH. One thing leap does have going for it that survival doesn't is that you can abuse LTB/dies abilities. Instead of going from your hand to your graveyard for reanimation. You can make use of the fact that your creature is dying and you get to replace it with something else in your hand and combine that with the reanimation.
July 18, 2015 10:17 p.m.
I honestly dont see jace holding value at all. he just inst that good. if he had a draw ability maybe but he doesn't so not good. If evolutionary leap put everything in your graveyard it may see modern play but it puts in in your library. There are also very few cards in standard that actually trigger with a sacrificed creature. as for gideon i feel he is good like really good but white weenie isnt seeing any play because rabble blows it out of the water and anger of the gods and drown in sorrow are both seeing play
July 18, 2015 10:34 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #6
cjk191997 that will change once M15/Theros block rotates out though, so Kytheon might actually see a spike once BFZ hits. can't say the same about Jace and Leap though.
July 18, 2015 10:38 p.m.
well, like I said, I just feel like Jace provides too much card advantage to not see a home in standard. Even if it's not pure card draw and your only looting. Looting isn't suddenly the worst thing in the world lol. And as long as he's seeing play in standard his price isn't going to suddenly drop. So while his price might fluctuate a couple of dollars here and there as the meta shifts around rotation and as he finds a home, we aren't looking at bulk. If you play blue and potentially want to use Jace, selling him now will probably save you a couple of dollars at best when you go to pick him up again.
However if you are a die hard Rakdos player and will never play these cards out of spite for those colors then feel free to get rid of them all. While I don't think Jace or Kytheon are going to drop significantly while they're standard legal, the only one that really has any room for immediate growth is Evolutionary Leap and out of the 3 that's the one we're most unsure about because combo type decks aren't always immediately apparent and tend to require a little more work.
July 18, 2015 10:58 p.m.
canterlotguardianwhile I recognize that things like Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods will be rotating how hard is it to block a 2/1 swinging on turn 2 that needs to attack with 2 others to become truly effective while I do love what gideon can possibly do I don't feel it will live up to its true potential.
That being said on the issue of jace, I don't see him as more than a fun of unless they make flashback come back. Flash back would actually make jace probably stupid good. Putting cards in the grave yard mixed with delve. But unless something more comes back I don't see him being played because the current jace Jace, the Living Guildpact can fuel delve and is at a whole $2.75 on tcg average. (Jace, Memory Adept is at $3.75 and has been printed 3 times)
also on jace if youre delving which he would be good for youre taking cards out of your graveyard which in turn stops him from flipping. There is the idea of running a mill deck around him (which has never seen much more than kitchen table play) (being said I have the modern mill deck built). He is just to slow for a mill deck. Not out till turn 2 sure maybe you got a thoughtsieze off turn 1 but still would take till turn 3 to flip him assuming you don't delve for a ddt or Murderous Cut. Then on top of all of that if he doesnt get attacked he takes 4 more turns to get him ultimated.
Also Jace is a 0/2. He can't even effectively without dying.
sorry I played control for a while I personally am annoyed at how bad jace is
and while i do see how you can compare Evolutionary Leap to Survival of the Fittest, for Evolutionary Leap you have to first get the creature on the battle field. And also this is an economics forum post meaning he is looking at value maybe in 10 years it will spike but cards seeing minimal play in standard and play in edh rarely hike prices, simply because edh you can only play a 1 of
Survival of the fittest is also a banned card in many formats. This can either make the price plummet or soar usually plummet. there was also a huge spike of it at the beginning of the year im assuming from tiny leaders huge attractiveness or a buy out so I don't believe the current price of the two can be compared while maybe their ability is close no matter what this set will be more opened than exodus was.
tldr: Jace p/t sucks, delve kills him, alt to slow Gideon: to easy to block/kill, flip isn't easy to do, but love himEvolutionary Leap: just not good enough to match the price of survival and origins will probably be more opened than exodus
July 18, 2015 11:24 p.m.
Your not playing Jace because you want to delve, evident by every reason you gave. That's not what his appeal is at all. He's also strictly better than the living guildpact because he puts a card into your hand and doesn't just manipulate the top of your library. There is a world of difference between those two things. With fetch lands, spells, and the loot ability from Jace, 5 cards isn't hard to get to and he provides you with some card advantage each turn till you get there. Playing him on turn 2, it's very possible to flip him on turn 3 and use his first ability to protect him. He also will fit into a control deck as well, because you don't have to play him on turn 2. Dropping him later in the game with mana open to respond to whatever your opponent does isn't a bad thing. It's just as easy to flip him when you play him on turn 6 as it is when you play him on turn 2 so that's not a problem. Then he helps stall your opponent while you remove and counter things and his minus ability lets you recast draw spells and kill spells. Not to mention if you can protect him for 4 turns (something a control deck should do fairly easily) then his ult becomes a win condition that is tied to you doing everything you would normally do in a control deck, casting instants and sorcery's.
He's not bad because a delve strategy makes it harder to flip him, that's just a reason not to feature him in your delve deck. Sometimes common sense is required as your putting decks together. Besides you never know, being able to loot every turn might even be better than flipping him some games. If you can get him going from turn 3 on that would be a ton of card advantage. Especially if they did, like you said, bring back flashback.
July 19, 2015 3:17 a.m.
After testing with all those cards, i can say they are some of the strongest cards in orgins. I would personally hold on to them all because they will hold their value.
Leap is my favorite so far because what it does to the board state. As long as you have green mana up you always have a choice of how to attack and block without it being correct. You can blank all removal spells. Picture this in a game. You have 7 mana and a languish in your hand, you need to wipe the board. You cast languish and it doesn't get countered. You spend 3 mana to sac your guys and draw 3 gas creatures. You are now up 3 creature cards to their wiped board. Seems fair yet?
Jace works well with sweeper cards. You can flip him first, then sweep the board. On your next turn you can sweep again if need be or just plus him. He draws a card. That is great because you can do it on their turn to find anticipate to draw a counter spell if need be. He has alot of applications with other cards that makes him a great 3 color plainswalker deck.
Gideon is the nutz in a weenie deck. I cast him first, next turn 2 more 1 drop creatures. If i draw a 3rd land, I can swing and he only goes down to -X,-X, or exile cards. Then he flips and you plus to untap your creature and give it pro death until your next turn. It protects itself while making a turn 3 planeswalker which is hard to bet alot of games.
Red/White weenie looks gross since you have token spells at 2 mana that make 2 bodies. Dragon Fodder and Raise the Alarm You also have 5 other 1 drops that are 2/1 or 2/2 in those colors. Not including pumpable drops like Monastery Swiftspear Lightning Berserker Goblin Glory Chaser . Gideon is a real threat in a small ball type of deck. Paying 3 mana to block forever is something that came up in draft when you can't turn him on.
July 19, 2015 12:45 p.m.
VictorSilvertome says... #11
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip just jumped from $12 to $19 in the last couple of days. Not sure why, though.
July 19, 2015 1:34 p.m.
@raca137 That's what I've been saying about Kytheon. If you completely ignore the fact that he can flip and become a planeswalker, a 1 drop creature that is a 2/1 with a relevant ability is still extremely good. Buuuuuut, he does have the possibility of becoming a planeswalker so that just turns an extremely good card into a powerhouse.
July 19, 2015 2:08 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #13
Victor - Silvertome - Blue Black control plays him, he provides card advantage and delve fuel.
seuvius - Honestly this set has me confused what to invest in and get out of. Jace is seeing play in Blue Black right now. The other deck it is being tested in is Sidisi Whip decks so for the next month or so Jace's value should go up but will mostly likely plummet when theros rotates out. The reason he is tested in Sidisi whips is the fueling the graveyard and the fact that you can whip him in, transform him and keep him as a walker then -3 him down for value. The drawback is that he just isn't as good as Sadisi herself or Tassi.
Kytheon/Gideon aka The Kyd will go up in price, it's expected to see play in modern since A it's still a 2/1 for 1 at worst and at best he's a lure that stops you losing from any creature deck that can also become a 4/4.
Evolutionary Leap is hard to assess, In EDH it will be awesome. For standard it is odd. Sure it's good when a creature will die anyway but I can't see it being too abuse-able without a whole bunch of creatures who produced tokens. Elves might play it just to make certain they can maintain board presence for Shaman of the Pack.
canterlotguardian says... #2
Jace won't keep its value unless it takes off in some format other than Standard, Kytheon is divided on who says it'll stay and who says it won't, and the Leap is pretty much EDH fodder unless it makes a home that no one's seeing yet.
Tl;dr sell on all 3 of them.
July 18, 2015 9:14 p.m.