modern grixis build????
Deck Help forum
Posted on Sept. 1, 2014, 11:04 p.m. by Iroas
im interested in getting into modern and want to start off iwth a budget more casual grixis build. i cant afford going tier 1 or anything. i want to for sure run Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker . just need pointed in the right direction. thanks!!!
Femme_Fatale says... #3
If you are just going into modern, control is probably not the place to be. Aggro or combo is a lot easier, because in order for a control deck to work effectively, you need to dish out that cash for the mana base. I would suggest going two colour control instead. That way you won't get mana screwed so often. Dimir control is nice, good removal, discard and counterspells.
September 2, 2014 5:43 a.m.
In order to execute any control deck, you need to know the format. I would recommend UW or RU delver to start. It's not tier 1 but it's pretty good
September 2, 2014 8:25 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #5
Removal spells: Lightning Bolt , Terminate , Dismember , Slaughter Pact , Electrolyze , possibly Damnation
Counterspells: Cryptic Command , Mana Leak , Remand
Snapcaster Mage to rebuy all of these things.
Manlands: Creeping Tar Pit , Lavaclaw Reaches
Win-conditions: The manlands, Keranos, God of Storms , Olivia Voldaren , Batterskull , Cruel Ultimatum
Important lands: Bloodstained Mire , Scalding Tarn , Polluted Delta
The last cards will likely decrease in price in the coming months, so you can wait until then if you'd like.
September 2, 2014 8:40 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
Removal spells: Lightning Bolt , Terminate , Dismember , Slaughter Pact , Electrolyze , possibly Damnation
Counterspells: Cryptic Command , Mana Leak , Remand
Snapcaster Mage to rebuy all of these things.
Manlands: Creeping Tar Pit , Lavaclaw Reaches
Win-conditions: The manlands, Keranos, God of Storms , Olivia Voldaren , Batterskull , Cruel Ultimatum
Important lands: Bloodstained Mire , Scalding Tarn , Polluted Delta
The last cards will likely decrease in price in the coming months, so you can wait until then if you'd like.
September 2, 2014 8:40 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #7
You forgot Spell Snare in there as a counterspell, and potentially Izzet Charm as a multi-purpose card. And then for the lands, Blood Crypt , Watery Grave , Steam Vents , Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Mana Confluence and Boseiju, Who Shelters All are all good includes. The last 3 I generally only keep as 2 of max in any deck.
September 2, 2014 11:47 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #8
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is a one-of. Always. Also, with the improved support I would never play Mana Confluence in a three-color deck. Boseiju, Who Shelters All seems better fit to a combo deck, and it doesn't help you resolve Cruel Ultimatum .
September 2, 2014 11:53 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #9
But once again, grixis is far too expensive. Going dimir means you don't need the fetches nor most of the shocks and can survive with only Watery Grave , Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Boseiju, Who Shelters All , Creeping Tar Pit and whatever else kind of land you want. Checkland, filterland, painland, your choice.
The removal base changes, Dismember , Slaughter Pact and Damnation stay the same, however you don't have red for Terminate , so you'll have to make do with Victim of Night , Go for the Throat and Smother .
Counterspells stay the same.
We all forgot discard spells. Thoughtseize , Inquisition of Kozilek , and Duress .
Wincons change though. I'm not too knowledgeable on dimir win cons. I generally like Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver , but that is because the only other thing I can think of that may be potentially good (besides man-lands) is Wight of Precinct Six . I never once went dimir control so my knowledge on dimir win cons is, lacking. At best.
September 2, 2014 11:55 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #10
Dimir would probably just win with a pair of Batterskull or Creeping Tar Pit , because those two colors suck at attacking in every way.
If you want to play discard spells, don't play more than three or four. One-for-oneing is not what you want to be doing a lot as a control player, but it's nice against combo.
September 2, 2014 11:58 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #11
Not really man. Urborg is a two of in any deck running black. It is really powerful when it comes to mana fixing. I also always play Mana Confluence as a two of, because once again, it is really potent, but mainly because you can evade the life with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth on the field. Same reason I suggested Boseiju, Who Shelters All , though that can be a one of, as ETBT lands I'm hesitant on playing. Boseiju does protect any removal or counterspell you have against other counterspells, though I do admit I forgot it only granted colourless, making it useless with Cruel Ultimatum .
September 2, 2014 noon
GlistenerAgent says... #12
Find me a Modern deck that plays two Urborgs.
The mana is good enough that one is all you need. Junk plays one, and three Tectonic Edge s.
You shouldn't play Mana Confluence any more, because you have access to up to 12 fetches if you want them, which are almost always better unless you're particularly aggressive.
My qualm with Boseiju is that you want to use Boseiju to cast things like Cryptic Command , but then it is taking away from that by not being blue itself. A lot of the good instants and sorceries are color-intensive.
September 2, 2014 12:05 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #13
I just did a search, the only Modern deck that played more than one Urborg that I could find was a MBD (discard) deck, and that makes sense. Control shouldn't play two, because you want to make your land drop every turn. Already being three colors makes two Urborgs an even riskier proposition.
September 2, 2014 12:08 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #14
In terms of inevitability in modern control, having something at two generally means that you'll be getting the card from anywhere in between turns 4-8, but won't be finding the 2nd one until turns 10-14+. In these numbers it means that that when the 2nd one comes up, it doesn't really matter that you've missed a land drop, because your mana base should already be fleshed out by that point. The matter of consistency in getting the card far outweighs the loss of having two legendaries. Not too mention leaving one land in your hand helps bait out discard spells. Though you don't need Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in two colours, just to correct myself on that.
As for the fetches, I've never played anymore than 6 fetches in 3 colour decks at one point. You do not need any more than that, as otherwise you are putting yourself up for too much risk in RDW and Blood Moon . I've played extensively with only 6 fetches (5 or 4 usually now) and I've never run into the problem where I have the wrong mana to play a card. Cruel control is a bit different, though I normally wouldn't run Cryptic Command as it is quite lack-luster for 4 mana. I would generally go 8 fetches for cruel or other colour intensive decks.
September 2, 2014 12:24 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #15
Cryptic Command is lackluster for four mana?
I see your logic. I guess we just have different experiences with fetchlands. I play eight in a lot of my decks and still don't get my mana properly, so I may just be getting unlucky. Playing a fetchland is probably better than a Mana Confluence though, and I still won't play two Urborgs.
September 2, 2014 12:27 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #16
It could be your cards themselves. If you have a lot of double or triple mana intensive cards then yes, your mana base is gonna be screwy. Try playing Okay Kids, It's Show and Tell Time! and see how your luck holds with the mana base. I just recently re-added Boseiju, Who Shelters All to it, so unsure of how the mana works at the moment.
And yes, Cryptic Command is lack-luster. Most of the time it is just a dead card as you rarely have 4 lands left open with 3 of them being islands. A card that stays in your hand until you reach a mana base of 8 or so, isn't a good card in my opinion. Granted you can keep it as a 1 or 2 of, but the benefit of choosing two different things doesn't actually work out very well control builds. They shouldn't have permanents for you to return to their hand. They shouldn't have creatures on the board that you have to tap. So that means it is a cantrip counterspell, which I prefer Remand to fit that slot much more, even if it isn't a hard counterspell. And how about Snapcaster Mage 'ing a Cryptic Command ? 6 mana for a cantrip counterspell. BLEGH. It gets even worse if you go WUX control, as you really don't have the room for it with Celestial Colonnade .
September 2, 2014 12:40 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #17
Thinking about it a bit more, Cryptic Command would be best in a grixis control build, where you'll be using a lot of fetches among other things to be getting that mana base up Cruel Ultimatum , so you won't be having it as a dead card in your hand as often.
September 2, 2014 12:44 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #18
Do you know how good Cryptic Command is? Have you read the card? Have you looked at decklists? WUx control consistently plays at least three copies of Cryptic Command . The mana is rarely an issue, and not big enough of an issue to warrant not playing four copies.
Saying that they shouldn't have creatures to tap and things to bounce is flawed. They will get something into play, and you will need to stop it.
I might just have terrible luck. The first opening hand I looked at with that deck had two Urborgs. :) I am almost completely sure that those two Mana Confluence s should be Flooded Strand s, but I guess you've tested it more than me.
September 2, 2014 12:58 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #19
I actually have Cryptic Command and used to regularly play it. The more I played it, the more I disliked it. It became one of those cards that you go "why draw THIS card? Why not something else?"
September 2, 2014 1:03 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #20
Well, I suppose it's personal preference. I am always happy to draw Cryptic Command , because it's good when you're ahead as well as when you need to dig from behind. It also cantrips! What's not to like?
If you feel the mana is hard with Cryptic Command , you might just be building the manabase wrong. Play 7+ fetches!
September 2, 2014 1:06 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #21
Which is why I said it would be best in a grixis build in which you already need to have that amount of fetches. Beyond that, the only deck I would run 8+ fetches is in a RDW deck.
September 2, 2014 1:11 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
I think I know of a good win con for dimir now. Tombstalker or Delver of Secrets Flip with Batterskull or Sword of Light and Shadow perhaps?
September 2, 2014 6:28 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #23
I wouldn't play Tombstalker , just because there are ways to kill it. Batterskull is invincible so long as they don't counter it, kind of like Keranos (which obviously you can't play).
September 2, 2014 7:04 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #24
Dimir is my cup of tea. And win cons are, as Femme_Fatale pointed out, something of an issue. Unlike U/W/X, Dimir decks lack the punch of Celestial Colonnade or something like Gideon Jura . My go to win con has always been Batterskull or Wurmcoil Engine since both can net you back the lost life and provide an excellent finish.
Now, Cryptic Command is a bit of an odd duck because it is a fantastic card. But, I have found it to be the wrong card, so many many times. It is an excellent card in Cruel Control (something I have experience with) and can be the card you need in U/B control, but sometimes you'll wish you drew anything else.
I hesitate to suggest Delver of Secrets Flip even with a Sword, but I do like the idea of Tombstalker and would be a good budget alternative.
September 2, 2014 7:15 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #25
@CanadianShinobi How so? I've literally never been in a situation (other than one where I can't cast it or am land-light) where Cryptic Command had no use.
I'd like to know more about Wurmcoil Engine . It seems risky to me to play it without a way to recur it (Academy Ruins ) just because it doesn't protect itself like Batterskull .
September 2, 2014 7:16 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #26
@CanadianShinobi How so? I've literally never been in a situation (other than one where I can't cast it or am land-light) where Cryptic Command had no use.
I'd like to know more about Wurmcoil Engine . It seems risky to me to play it without a way to recur it (Academy Ruins ) just because it doesn't protect itself like Batterskull .
September 2, 2014 7:16 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #27
GlistenerAgent It's a versatile card, and it is useful, but I never pack more than 3 into my control decks these days. The situations don't arise often, but in my experience they've happened often enough that I am not a raving madman over the card anymore. Sure, I can tap the attack and cantrip and HOPE that Damnation shows up, but I would rather just have Damnation show up. I'm someone who likes their sweepers. I like stabilizing effectively and sometimes Cryptic Command won't do that for you. Honestly, it's just a matter of opinion, but I'm still a fan of the card.
Now, Wurmcoil Engine when I run it I usually run 2. Yes, Batterskull is cheaper and doesn't get removed easily, but unless someone is going to Path to Exile Wurmcoil Engine you've bought yourself some value. I do like running a combination of the two, since it is always useful to have alternatives, but I find that if Batterskull is stopped out of the gate it becomes a bit of a mana sink that I don't always have time to invest in.
September 2, 2014 7:31 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #28
Oh and another favourite of mine is Grave Titan
September 2, 2014 7:36 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #29
Wurmcoil Engine and Grave Titan are both excellent win cons. I'll do well to remember them for next time I have to suggest dimir.
September 2, 2014 8:57 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #30
September 5, 2014 4:04 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #31
All very slow. FAR too slow. Never use mill as a win con unless it is a mill deck.
September 5, 2014 8:07 p.m.
NerdPounder says... #35
If you're having trouble with your mana in modern then your deck is too mana intensive or you don't know how to play fetches... That being said, Cryptic Command is good but somewhat overrated, mostly because UWR plays it and it's flashy. I've generally found that two is a good number so that you don't get stuck with them in your hand. Don't forget to have Countersquall in the SB, it's Negate with a Shock which is just real good in a lot of situations, and against certain decks that don't care about their life total can kill them, like against a Death's Shadow deck or something. Like others have pointed out though, if you're trying to get into modern without breaking the bank, something like Storm or Affinity might be more what you're looking for.
almerican says... #2
Google search for Cruel Control, it involves the curve topper of Cruel Ultimatum which usually ends the game
September 1, 2014 11:09 p.m.