Can mass land destruction exist in casual commander?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 28, 2020, 3:31 p.m. by MoJoMiXuP
Hey All, I recently moved and the playgroup at my new LGS is a fair bit more casual than my old one. My oldest commander deck Jhoira's Dream Scheme - III leans heavily on mass land destruction, annihilator triggers, and other such dirty tricks that can leave players with a bad taste I don't want to create. Instead of shelving the deck, I'm trying to think of a way to pivot it into a more casual form that keeps MLD as the backbone.
From a casual player's perspective, would this sounds like a fun idea:
Jhoira's Russian Roulette
The current deck runs 6 beefy creatures. What if each game I asked the table how many bullets they were comfortable playing with in a game of Russian roulette (1 through 6) and then adjust the creatures accordingly. 6 bullets would be nothing changes, while 5 through 1 would be keeping 1-5 of the silver bullet OG beasts and replacing the others with 0 cmc 0 power duds like Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds, Kobolds of Kher Keep, Ornithopter, and Phyrexian Walker.
If I polymorph into a Blightsteel Colossus, great, but if I spin the wheel and hit an Ornithopter, too bad for me!
Anyway, just curious what people would think of sitting across from this kind of playstyle. Feel free to tell me its BS and MLD can NEVER coexist with casual, but I'm hoping to bridge the gap!
Many Thanks, - Geoff
TriusMalarky says... #3
MLD is not casual. Casual players don't even run creature removal in effective ways(depending on playgroup).
I think Polymorphing is fine, but.... MLD is hated up until right under cEDH at which point you should either go full cEDH or go back to solid. Basically, it's not good enough for cEDH and if you player against anyone else they'll cry or hit you or something.
October 28, 2020 4:16 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #4
Please elaborate on "casual" for our further understanding
October 28, 2020 4:44 p.m.
This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum (auto-generated comment)
October 28, 2020 5:37 p.m.
I think you can at least tell from this thread that thoughts on MLD vary from group to group, and "casual" is never a monolith. For what it's worth I agree with RiotRunner789 that it should only be used as a late-game win con, but more importantly, I'd say: just ask!
October 28, 2020 6:38 p.m.
If you use MLD, use it to win. MLD is fine if it makes the game end faster. People hate sitting on a useless board so use it sparingly to win games.
October 28, 2020 7:43 p.m.
Gontilordofmtg says... #9
Polymorph can be a fun strategy that casual players generally won't have a problem with (In my experience). However, MLD is generally frowned upon in casual edh as it can make for some very long and unfun games. I do know of casual playgroups that are okay with virtually any strategy as long as power-level wise the decks are equal, but most of the time, MLD is not a good idea and I would reccommend changing or simply not playing that deck.
October 28, 2020 8:46 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #10
I had a lot of land destruction in my natural disaster deck (Jokulhaups, Flashfires, etc) and found that I always ended up holding it because it didn’t fit the game-state and would make everything a lot less fun. Eventually I took (almost) all of it out. A five-color deck is always allowed a Global Ruin right? Just skip the land destruction in multiplayer games, except for maybe the odd stone rain for killing off a combo piece or whatever. It’ll be more fun that way. For everyone. (my two cents)
October 28, 2020 11:29 p.m.
StardustDragon11 says... #11
No. And maybe yes.
Depends entirely on your playgroup and how likely they are to flip the table and stab you in the kidneys they are.
October 29, 2020 1:05 a.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #12
Set expectations before you start the game. Explain to the table the gist of what your deck does if you're a little shakey on weather it's okay or not. Edh is very subjective and meant for socialization. Communicate and you'll find the right group of casuals for you.
October 29, 2020 3:52 a.m.
dingusdingo says... #13
I have two very important words for anyone that complains about mass land destruction
Fuck 'em
Mass permanent removal is one of the few ways red and white can keep up with the other three colors much better drawing powers. Nobody will seriously sit down at a table and expect a blue deck to run without access to counterspells, so why is pulling out mass land destruction expected?
B-b-b-b-but it isn't fun and stalls out games
So does Wrath of God but nobody complains about wrath effects.
B-b-b-but I can't play around it
- Counterspells stop it on the stack
- Not playing out all your lands in hand prevents overextending and getting wiped, similar to creatures against Wrath of God
- Every single color combination has access to more than enough mana rocks to prevent a total mana wipe
- Mana dorks also exist to work around mass land destruction
- MLD causing huge problems with playability in your deck points to your CMC's being too high anyways.
Rather than complain and demand other people change how they build their decks, someone on the receiving end of an Armageddon should think about what they can do to make their deck perform better knowing that such cards not only exist, but are legal in the format. P.S. I also feel the exact same way about every other salt inducing card and strategy.
October 29, 2020 4:22 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #14
Casual players want to play their deck. Any MLD or Stasis-like strategies that make opponents not play their deck can be expected to meet heavy groans and complaining upon resolve. Or you can shuffle up and start the next round, the way an infinite combo would.
It's a debate about winning vs. having fun. Even if I win a game after being MLD'd, because I had something on board to slug it out with, it doesn't mean I had fun not playing the cards in my hand, not executing the strategies I built the deck for.
The decks with 12 WoGs, or 20 counterspells, or all the other ways you can build a deck that explicitly doesn't let your opponents play the game will find some resistance on casual tables.
MLD is a way to win the game, true. It's an advantage that white and red have over the "good" commander colors, true. But it's not a fun strategy to be at the receiving end of, that's why it's best to announce MLD being in your deck at casual tables, and make sure everyone is ok with it before you start playing. If winning is your only way to have fun, what are you doing at casual tables '^^
October 29, 2020 5:56 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #15
The problem with MLD at casual tables is that people will just do it to have something to do instead of using it strategically. If you can win soon after it is perfectly reasonable. Preventing others from playing and then just not doing anything further is a dick move though. I feel the same way about any strategy that just makes the tempo of the game screech to a halt in casual. Wincon-less stax, 60 counterspell, chaos, anything that stops people from executing their plan without one of your own.
October 29, 2020 6:37 a.m.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. To answer your question Omniscience_is_life, I'm still assessing the level of 'casual' having only had a couple evenings at the shop, but thus far it feels like a 4-7 range in power. For example, playing against an Alela, Artful Provocateur deck with an infinite mill combo and tutor support on one hand, and a Zurgo Helmsmasher chef themed jank equipment deck on the other. A fair bit of spot removal but little counterspell interaction. If you win with a deck, you rotate it out, that sort of thing.
Also, to clarify for the group, the MLD is never used as a 'screw you I'm going to lose anway so why not hurt everyone on my way out'. It is used to clear the table leaving only an Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre on the table, or else stacked to resolve before an Omniscience off suspend, that sort of thing.
October 29, 2020 7:49 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #17
Ooh I do like suspending Omniscience :3
I would say if you think you can end the game basically immediately on the back of the MLD, then whatever, go for it. People will get triggered but it isn't really all that bad if the game ends next turn.
October 29, 2020 12:31 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #18
Yeah, timing MLD effects right before a biggie hits sounds perfectly fine. It's basically just big counterspell.
And if they complain, then they sorta suck. I find that the most annoying decks are only ever annoying because the person complaining is(excuse the language) too stupid to do anything except complain. I've been there, I played my combo deck against an 8-rack in $30 modern every week for half a year. The only other deck that did very well was Nearly Headless Nick's Spirits, which was fun.
October 29, 2020 12:58 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #19
No. Look up any list of commander faux pas, and land destruction will be on it, my dude. Ask your playgroup - but unless they're cool with it, I wouldn't try to keep it in. There's plenty of viable budget decks that will fit right in.
RiotRunner789 says... #2
So I have a Jhoira Eldrazi deck that uses MLD such as Devastation. However, I never just blow up the board to just blow it up, there's typically an annihilator Eldrazi right behind it.
Typically, if you win the game the turn it goes off then it should be fine. What makes mld not fun is when the game doesn't end and you can't do anything.
So I would say you should only need to tune your deck to your playgroups power level. In this case, since they seem to play less powerful decks, swap at some eldrazi for a big creature that's a bit more tame and maybe have fewer mld.
October 28, 2020 4:15 p.m.