Howlstone Gargoyle

Custom Cards forum

Posted on Nov. 1, 2018, 9:29 a.m. by seshiro_of_the_orochi

Howlstone Gargoyle

Artifact Creature - Gargoyle

Flying, Defender

At the beginning of each player's draw step, that player draws an additional card.

Discard your hand: Until end of turn, Howlstone Gargoyle may attack as though it didn't have defender.

4/5


Current thoughts circle around designing gargoyle cards. Cards like Wakestone Gargoyle, Voidstone Gargoyle and Nullstone Gargoyle define their power basically by which material they're made of. So what if there'd be a gargoyle made from a material taken from the Howling Mine? This would be this creature. It's a slightly undercosted flyer with integrated symmetrical value and a seemingly harsh cost to be able to attack. Thoughts?

SynergyBuild says... #2

The flavor from Howling Mine was that it was a bountiful mine, filled with items that were of great worth, and the mine was 'shared' by each player. It isn't made of a uniform material and so I don't think 'Howlstone' fits the flavor.

Sorry, sounds cool though, really Howling Golem shows us a way that the gargoyle could still fit the flavor. That golem's flavor text implies that is attacking/blocking makes some of the riches that it contains fall out, like a crumbling Geode filled with Rubies or something.

You could make the 'Howling Gargoyle', with flavor showing as it flaps it's wings, or something it ends up popping off random gems or stuff.

November 1, 2018 10:34 a.m.

Funkydiscogod says... #3

The creature's stats I think are too big.

The "Defender" and activated ability on the card is basically Slithering Shade: it can block, but can't attack until you have an empty hand. This seems to make a creature cheaper by 2, since we compare it to Frozen Shade (which may or may not be underpowered, since they later printed Looming Shade). At a cost of 4, I would compare it to a Lumengrid Gargoyle with those abilities.

Kami of the Crescent Moon is smaller than comparable creatures like Plated Seastrider. I would expect it to be 1 toughness less than Lumengrid Gargoyle for the same cost, and legendary.

I also think that it should be Legendary, because duplicate copies wouldn't be dead the same way as extra Kami of the Crescent Moon(because it's legendary) and Slithering Shade(because you can only spend mana on one).

If you buy all these arguments, this creature would be a Legendary 4/3 with the same abilities.

I would also say that since the proposed card also has a built-in Hellbent enabler, it should probably also suffer a further reduction in power, perhaps to a 3/3. But, I think I tend to err on the side of underpowered.

November 1, 2018 1:50 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #4

Funkydiscogod that is good for balance, but still, the flavor is super lacking in the current variation, breaking the consistency found in Howling Mine and Howling Golem, and I can't have that.

As well, I think it should be rephrased as such for balance.

Discard a card: Howlstone Gargoyle gains flying until end of turn, activate this ability only once each turn, only on your turn.

Hellbent - As long as you have no cards in your hand, Howlstone Gargoyle can attack as though it didn't have defender.

This way it is less abuse-able as a discard-outlet, while still having one, it can even have the same body, and not have legendary. I say this, while both edits I believe balance it, this way the Gargoyle can fit with the other two howling cards, being legendary and all.

Additionally, that change would make the draw ability on it almost a downside, not being able to trigger nearly as often, if you plan to just discard everything.

November 1, 2018 3:44 p.m.

RedmundR2 says... #5

Usually artifact creatures especially with flying have lower stats in part because they dont require any specific colored mana to cast, especially with a power ability that draws cards. Even though the card has defender as well, 4 power with 5 toughness seems like quite alot. My personal recommendation would be to drop it down to either a 4/3 like the previous poster suggested or probably more like a 3/3. As anyone that plays commander can tell you, symmetrical effects are not always truly symmetrical in practice too. If it did not have flying, the 4/5 wouldn't be too egregious, but considering for an aggressive deck emptying your hand wouldn't be too difficult and drawing 2 cards per turn while being able to ditch them for a 4/5 flier seems very reasonable...almost too reasonable.

I love the flavor, the design is simple but cool, but the stats are just too high IMO. Howling Mine is one of my favorite artifacts.

November 1, 2018 4:04 p.m.

SynergyBuild: I hadn't thought about mine in that way. Though I'm not as concerned with the flavour as you, I totally get your point. I could absolutely imagine changing this by making it a legendary creature totally unrelated to mine. Regarding the alternativ wording on your second comment, I can't really get behind that, as it feels too far away from the original design.

Funkydiscogod: what do you think about putting it at 4/4 or 4/3 while making it a legendary which costs 1WUB? This way it could be balanced a little more and become an interesting commander. This casting cost would also minimize the problem of being an artifact as mentioned by RedmundR2.

November 1, 2018 4:51 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #7

But... the FLAVOUR!

November 1, 2018 5:04 p.m.

I baked you a little flavour. Which flavour, you ask? FLAVOUR FLAVOUR!!!

I just pondered with the possible shards or wedges. So the pseudo howling mine is colourless. Flying is blue, and "defender because gargoyle" is a white thing. The activated ability is a pretty red thing to do as it feels very impulsive. This guy definitely isn't a jeskai card though. Black has discard as a cost, but discarding your whole hand isn't that usual. It exists on cards like Behold the Beyond though.So making the card esper is a bending, but not a breaking. Still, a 4/4 for cmc4 with these abilities seems weird.

How about this:

Turiel, the Gemshaper

Legendary Artifact Creature - Gargoyle

Defender

At the beginning of each player's draw step, that player draws an additional card.

Discard your hand: Until end of turn, Turiel, the Gemshaper gains flying and may attack as though it didn't have defender.

4/4


I left it at 4/4 but put the unconditional flying away. Also, now it costs cmc5 and is lrgendary. Thoughts?

November 1, 2018 5:33 p.m.

Funkydiscogod says... #9

It looks weird as a 4/4. Reminds me of Tower Gargoyle.

November 1, 2018 5:38 p.m.

So still 4/3? Feels strange to have a defensively week gargoyle.

November 2, 2018 1:01 a.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #11

Don't forget Flowstone ;)


Flowstone Gargoyle

Artifact Creature - Gargoyle

Flying

: Flowstone Gargoyle gets +1/-1 until end of turn.

If avalanches had wings, you might have a close comparison. And claws. And teeth.

3/5

November 2, 2018 3:49 a.m. Edited.

TypicalTimmy says... #12

So for you get a 7/1 Flyer.

Not as good as Shivan Dragon, but you get him out a turn sooner.

Running Aggro, this gives you great sky potential over your opponent. This also means you can very easily trade blockers, or throw down Trample and swing for the win.

For + + an additional you could increase him to 7/1, cast Brute Strength, make him a 10/2, and turn him to an 11/1.

Against non-Burn decks, this is absolutely game winning. It would be perfect as a red EDH staple.

November 2, 2018 4:04 a.m. Edited.

TypicalTimmy says... #13

seshiro_of_the_orochi, so this is the thing... For , a 4/5 flyer / blocker that can attack AND dump your hand at instant speed (not revealing your hand is sometimes worth dumping it) is insanely op.

But a 4/4 defender who doesn't have flying until you dump your hand, for and is Legendary is kind of... weak.

You're adding not just one mana, but three colors.

You need to strike a balance between identity + cost and abilities + stats.


Name

Legendary Creature - Gargoyle

Flying, Defender

At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player draws an additional card and loses 1 life.

Discard your hand: Name loses Defender until end of turn. If you discarded three or more cards, it gains +2/+2 until end of turn. If you discarded seven or more cards, it gains Indestructible until end of turn.

4/5


Higher cost + 2 colors justifies the 4/5 body

Draw is offset by ping

Discard is balanced by value. The more you give up, the more you get.

Plenty of draw in white and black. But if you want to add blue, make his cost and increase the +2/+2 to maybe +3/+3 since it's a bit harder to cast.

November 2, 2018 4:17 a.m.

This is going into an interesting direction. Thanks for the great ideas, TypicalTimmy. I'll have to think about all this for a little while.

November 2, 2018 5:40 a.m.

Turiel, the Gemshaper

Legendary Artifact Creature - Gargoyle

Flying, Defender

At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player draws an additional card and loses 1 life.

: scry 1.

Discard your hand: Name loses Defender until end of turn. If you discarded three or more cards, it gains +2/+2 until end of turn. If you discarded seven or more cards, it gains Indestructible until end of turn.

4/5


So I added this little scry ability. It's a try to add blue to its identity. I know that even scry 1 is insane with the draw ability, and I'm not sure how to cost it to balance it. For now, let's start with 3U.

November 3, 2018 3:57 a.m.

Funkydiscogod says... #16

Now, you've got too much text. I counted 61 words across 4 abilities.

That wouldn't even fit on a card.

November 3, 2018 11:03 a.m.

Looking at the last version of the card, I'd do one out of two things: go back to the start and just make it a 4/3. Or leave out the conditional part of the activated ability. What does everyone think?

November 3, 2018 2:33 p.m.

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