Ability challenge

Custom Cards forum

Posted on Sept. 13, 2019, 7:18 a.m. by Boza

Here is a quick challenge for you guys! I will say a single word, say "Graduate". Everybody makes one or more cards with that keyword or ability word or includes that word as a new card type. In terms of power level, something suitable for a Modern Horizons or a new Commander set. For example:

Student of Martial Arts
Creature - Human Warrior - Uncommon

Prowess
Graduate - When this creature deals combat damage to a player, if it has power or toughness greater than its base P/T, draw 2 cards, then discard a card.

2/2

Another user could make say:

Winding Mountain Way
Enchantment - Rare

Graduate 3 (Put three graduation counters on ~ as it enters the battlefield. Remove 1 each time a creature you control deals combat damage to a player).

Sacrifice ~: Creatures you control deal double damage this turn. Activate this ability only when ~ has no counters on it.

A third user might say:

Wizard Academy
Land - Graduation (Rare)

: Add .
,: Add +1/+1 counter to a creature whose type is included in this land's name.

Once 10 entries or a week have passed, the person who issued a challenge will select winner from the submission. I would really like that person to give a little feedback on each card as well. The winning user gets to select the new word to build around.

I hope I have explained it well!

1/ Small variations on the original word is fine - graduate is perfect, graduation and gradually are fine as well.

2/ You are not limited to one card, that is the minimum - you can make any number of cards with that mechanic to showcase it better or even cards that lack the mechanic, but are good with it - flex your creative muscles! Additionally, as mentioned, imagine your card(s) being printed in a Modern Horizons or Commander set.

3/ Any suggestions to the challenge are also welcome!

---

I will start us off with a word:

Divine

List of already used words Show

- Divine
- Collide
- Nobility
- Despair
- Extract
- Geography
- Intrepid
- Competition
- Illuminate
- Covenant
- Harmony
- Ancient
- Hunt
- Affiliate
- Combine
- Split

Boza says... #1

Hubris was a very nice word and I honestly like the other entries better :)

Anyways, I have to supply the next one. This will be a cool word. On Theros, we have a lot of cool mechanics - devotion, constellation, escape, heroic and now hubris are all very Greek-esq. But lets look at the future. Next up is Ikoria, probably the Muraganda setting we have been anticipating since Muraganda Petroglyphs . So, what is a word that could be at home on either Ikoria or Theros?

The word of the week is ANCIENT!

January 13, 2020 10:57 a.m.

Faelix_Drakes says... #2

Ancient: If this card has been on the battlefield for at least 5 turns, it becomes indestructible.

Maybe...

Idk.

January 15, 2020 4:52 p.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #3

Ability

ZendikariWol perhaps this will interest you for the set you're creating.

Ancient - as you cast this spell you may pay , where X is less than or equal to the number of total turns taken this game. ~ becomes Ancient.

If the Ancient cost was paid, do 'Action'.

---

So as the game progresses these spells are capable of being more powerful because time = experience, money, age, growth, etc. They will or should still be relevant when cast at their least. I also don't think it'll be restricted by color.

Examples

Common

Stubborn Rootborn

Creature - Treefolk

Defender

Ancient - as you cast this spell you may pay , where X is less than or equal to the number of total turns taken this game. It becomes Ancient.

If the Ancient cost was paid, ~ enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters loses defender and gains trample. If ~ is not Ancient it has : Add .

0/3

---

Weary Traveler

Creature - Human Scout

Ancient - as you cast this spell you may pay , where X is less than or equal to the number of total turns taken this game. ~ becomes Ancient.

If the Ancient cost was paid search your library for a number of basic lands equal to half of X rounded down. Reveal them and put them into your hand. Shuffle your library.

0/1

Uncommon

Archive Research

Sorcery

Ancient - as you cast this spell you may pay , where X is less than or equal to the number of total turns taken this game. ~ becomes Ancient.

If the Ancient cost was paid Scry X, then draw half of X rounded down. If not, Scry 1, then Draw a card.

---

Grave Finds

Sorcery

Ancient - as you cast this spell you may pay , where X is less than or equal to the number of total turns taken this game. ~ becomes Ancient.

If the Ancient cost was paid, return a creature from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped, then create X treasure tokens. If not return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand instead.

Rare

Resonating Spire

Legendary Artifact

~ is Ancient

Ancient spells cost less to cast if it's Ancient cost is being paid.

When ~ is destroyed, you may return a card with Ancient to your hand.

---

Unleashed Demonspawn

Creature - Devil

Haste

Ancient - as you cast this spell you may pay , where X is less than or equal to the number of total turns taken this game. ~ becomes Ancient.

If the Ancient cost was paid, when ~ enters the battlefield put X 1/1 Devil creature tokens into play with 'When this creature dies it deals 1 damage to any target'

4/2

Mythic

Cruella, Pact Mistress

Legendary Creature - Human Demon

Flying, Haste

Ancient - as you cast this spell you may pay , where X is less than or equal to the number of total turns taken this game. ~ becomes Ancient.

If the Ancient cost was paid, Discard your hand then search your library for X cards, put them into your hand then shuffle your library. If not then Discard your hand and lose 5 life.

I was imperfect once upon a time...

5/2

---

Knotvine Gnarlbark

Legendary Creature - Treefolk

Vigilance, Reach

Ancient - as you cast this spell you may pay , where X is less than or equal to the number of total turns taken this game. ~ becomes Ancient.

If the Ancient cost was paid ~ enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters and creatures you control gain trample.

2/5

Long have we stood, and long shall we continue to stand...

(Perhaps rarity would have the rules text removed?)

January 15, 2020 11:56 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #4

Ancient- At the beginning of the game, you may reveal this card from your hand.

Rules text interacts somehow with what happens if you revealed this card this game.

Examples:

Volcano Titan

Creature- Giant

Ancient- At the beginning of the game, you may reveal this card from your hand.

When Volcano Titan enters the battlefield, it deals 3 damage to up to two targets if you revealed it this game.

5/5

---

It looks pretty spicy, but I'm not 100% sure how easy it is to reveal cards (I suspect only playtesting would really tell) so it's probably best to be conservative with power levels?

January 16, 2020 1:44 a.m.

dbpunk says... #5

Ability-

Aging- At the beginning of each players upkeep, put an time counter on this permanent. Then, if it has three or more age counters, it becomes ancient.

Examples

Found Footprints Common

Enchantment

Aging

Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you gain 1 life. If ~ is ancient, instead you gain 3 life.

Stone of the King Uncommon

Artifact

: Add . If ~ is ancient, add instead.

Jurrasic Hunter Rare

Creature - Dinosaur

Trample

Aging

~ enters play with a time counter on it for each ancient permanent you control.

As long as ~ is ancient, creatures you control get +X/+X, where X is the number of time counters on ~.

4/4

Palace of the Gods Mythic Rare

Land

Aging

: add

, : Draw X cards. Only activate this ability if ~ is ancient. X can not exceed the number of time counters on ~.

January 17, 2020 12:46 a.m.

Boza says... #6

It has been about ten days already and we have at least three entries, so I think I will post some judgings in about 24 hours.

January 23, 2020 7:58 a.m.

Boza says... #7

OK, so after TypicalTimmy's lunch break last minute entry, I think we are ready for a new word:

Judging Show

TypicalTimmy Show

TypicalTimmy - You think the Mox would be banned, but the power creep on Ancient Tomb (i see what you did there) is even worse :). Still, I think the ability is nice and "subtypes matter and are thematic" is a very good thing for the game. However, your idea can be done by something that already exists in the game - the Elder subtype - which is exemplified on your Wreth, the first demon. I think the cards are fine and this can make a great Brawl and/or Commander product mechanic.

dbpunk Show

Conflict with cumulative upkeep aside, I think this is simple and effective. It is evocative and works in fairly different ways across all cards presented, showing a fairly wide range of the mechanic. It will work well in a standard set or as a Commander mechanic for a single product. Overall, a very nice design. I think that branching out into more colors can be a thing as well, the potential is there.

ZendikariWol Show

There is just too little to say much. I do not get the connection between revealing a card and being ancient, especially since the ability on the card can work if revealed by anything. Telepathy and its ilk break this mechanic. More thought and explanation and examples are needed.

Mj3913 Show

First, thanks for using the spoiler tags! Although not in any necessary, it is a good "quality of life" for the reviewer. Now, onto the ability itself! While I like the presentation a lot, the ability has two problems: memory issues and going against the core of MTG. This goes against the principle of mana curve. Any card with this Ancient ability cannot be placed anywhere in a mana curve of a deck, because it is everywhere at the same time - you can play one land per turn per normal. However, with ancient, any spell with that ability is castable at any mana cost. Any spell becomes akin to Heliod's Intervention and scales. This very dangerous to the diversity of cards. The second issue is remembering the total number of turns, which is only necessary if one of the decks is playing Ancient spells, which is not confusing up until turn 5, and a big ask of MTG players to track something they are not used to tracking. This can be fixed by caring about something other than turns taken though, which can also fix the other issue.

Faelix_Drakes Show

There is next to nothing here to judge, and I feel you have not read the rules of the thread. Feel free to join on the next one!

Top 5 this time Show

1. Faelix_Drakes - the least to judge.
2. ZendikariWol - the second-to-last place in terms of mechanic to judge.
3. TypicalTimmy - I like it a lot, but the cards are a bit over the top and the Elder subtype can already do that legwork perfectly fine.
4. Mj3913 - there are issues, but I like the potential a lot! I like the cards you presented the most, but with the fundamentals not in sync with the game...
5. dbpunk - simple effective and if you do not use time counters, I think a very well done mechanic.

So, congratulations, dbpunk! You have conquered the Ancient peak! Now descend upon us the new word!

January 24, 2020 7:41 a.m. Edited.

dbpunk says... #8

Thanks! Im glad you liked the mechanic.

So, the word Im thinking of this week is

Hunt

Feel free to use any version of this you want (hunted, hunt, hunter, etc) to try and make this an interesting and flavorful mechanic.

January 24, 2020 1:35 p.m.

dbpunk says... #9

I mean, there is literally cards with Fight causing as an activated ability.

(Ulvenwald Tracker and Arena)

January 24, 2020 2:57 p.m.

dbpunk says... #10

Oh and Magus of the Arena but you have a point.

January 24, 2020 2:58 p.m.

Boza says... #11

Any variation on that, huh

Hunter mechanic Show

Hunter is both a new creature subtype and a new keyword. It can appear on any creature as the "class" like "Creature - Minotaur Hunter". Furthermore, this ability distinguishes between the race and class of a creature type. So, if you wanted to hunt Magus of the Arena, you cannot say "wizard", you must say "human". I think that ability will be very at home in Ikoria, or something like Eldraine Set 2 or if we go back to Jund or Vivien's home plane. The usual colors for this mechanic are Jund, primary in green and secondary in black and red.

Hunt N (At the beginning of your end step, choose a creature race. This creature gets +N/+N until end of turn when blocking or being blocked by a creature with that race.)

Hunter cards Show

Treetop Bowman
Creature - Elf Hunter (Common)

Reach
Hunt 1 (At the beginning of your end step, choose a creature race. This creature gets +N/+N until end of turn when blocking or being blocked by a creature with that race.)

2/3

Vinejaw Pursuer
Creature - Plant Hunter (Uncommon)

Defender
Hunter 3
As long as an opponent controls a creature you are hunting, ~ may attack as though it did not have defender.

2/4

Korvold, Hunting for Revenge Creature - Dragon Hunter (Mythic)

Flying, trample
Hunt 2
Whenever a creature is sacrificed, you may change your hunted race to that creature's race.
At the beginning of combat on each turn, you may sacrifice a permanent. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Korvold.

3/5

January 27, 2020 5:34 a.m.

ZendikariWol says... #12

Would be a lot cleaner to just make it any creature type- in fact, I don't think WotC allows the distinction.

Domri's Ambush (or, now that I think about it, Moonlight Hunt) is definitely what I'm thinking as far as a hunt mechanic.

January 27, 2020 10:40 a.m.

Boza says... #13

It is a deliberate design choice to make it about creature race - something every creature has. Additionally, since the great creature type update, literally every creature follows the race/class model. Thus, making mechanics for either of the two is now possible and it is basically additional design space.

January 27, 2020 10:47 a.m.

dbpunk says... #14

Boza Im gonna say this now: you made a mistake in your formatting that doesn't work in the game.

January 27, 2020 3:53 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #15

I drafted this comment three different times, and what I learned from those drafts is 1- when you're stuck on something, just try it a bunch. Every successive attempt gets you closer to what you want. 2- philosophy aside, the core reason this doesn't feel like a mechanic is: reminder text! The mechanic is intuitive enough, but to be played at tournaments (or by players unfamiliar with the fantasy genre), a list would need to be put up on WotC's website of which creature types were races and which were classes. More importantly, one would have to, if uncertain, DO EXTRA HOMEWORK OUTSIDE THE GAME TO FIND OUT and that is not only an enormous turnoff for new players, but also a slog for any player.

January 27, 2020 4:03 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #16

But you made a noble attempt and, even if that attempt doesn't work with how Magic is played (and it doesn't), it's still an interesting new way to make creature type matter and I respect you pushing and looking for new design space.

January 27, 2020 4:05 p.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #17

Hunt Ability

Hunters in general cover a vast variety of species and professions, that being said I'm going to limit it to a few that stand out. Hunters can hunt in packs or alone, hunting also is generally considered aggressive. I will try to capture both in my examples both in color and flavor.

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

Cost/Condition: Action involving creatures with X hunt counters.

Examples

Really tried to push werewolves... or archers that turned to wolves but the space required was too much. My initial idea included a new version of Arlinn Kord, kind of disappointed I couldn't make it work. Without further ado, enjoy.

Commons

Daring Archer

Creature - Human Archer

Haste

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

Sacrifice ~: deal damage to a creature equal to the number of hunt counters on it.

1/1

---

Aspiring Hunter

Creature - Human Archer

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

: ~ fights target creature with one or more hunt counters on it.

2/2

---

Hungering Wolf

Creature - Wolf

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

~ gets +1/+1 for each other ~ you control

2/2

Uncommons

Pack Master

Creature - Human Archer Warrior

Reach

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

: put an X/X green hound creature token onto the battlefield where X is the number of hunt counters on target creature.

2/2

---

Skilled Fletcher

Creature - Human Archer

Archers you control gain +1/+1

When ~ enters the battlefield create an artifact equipment token named Longbow with "Equipped creature has +1/+1, reach, and when ~ attacks you may put an additional hunt counter on target creature you don't control "

3/3

---

Grizzled Alpha

Creature - Wolf

Trample

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

If ~ is blocked it gets +1/+1 for each hunt counter on creatures defending player controls.

3/3

Rare

Fiery Deadshot

Creature - Human Elf Archer

Haste, Doublestrike, Reach

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

Creatures with hunt counters cannot block ~.

2/2

---

Bounty Collector

Creature - Orc Archer

Deathtouch

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

: Destroy target creature with three or more hunt counters.

2/2

Mythic

Tannin, Master of the Hunt

Legendary Creature - Human Elf Archer

Haste, Reach

Hunt - when ~ enters he battlefield or attacks put a hunt counter on target creature you don't control.

Creatures you don't control with hunt counters get -1/-1 for each hunt counter on it.

5/4

January 27, 2020 11:04 p.m.

Boza says... #18

It is a bit late to change anything at this point. NOw that you have mentioned it, I see (some of) the issues with the idea, but what to do - I will await judgment day next day and see what happens.

January 28, 2020 2:58 a.m.

Tzefick says... #19

Some quick 2 cents on other entries:

TypicalTimmy Show

There's a lot of memory going into this mechanic, which creature is hunting which creature?

As such I would say this is strained to be printed on more than a small handful of cards and mainly at uncommon rarity and up, to avoid too much memory dedicated to a rather complex mechanic.

I wont say it will never happen, but the mechanic has a lot going against it.

That being said, I still think it's a neat concept, but I'm unsure about the balance between useful/oppressive and relevant/irrelevant. If the trigger is bound on the opponent's choice, it's in their hands to make it useful to you. They'll generally do whatever they can to make it the least impactful for you. As such it's a very unreliable mechanic.

Boza Show

This is where I'll go that extra step and say: That'll never happen.

I don't think we'll ever see a segregation of creature types based on something like race or profession/title - mostly because there are so many creatures without either (correction; it seems like WotC have gone through all their older designs and designated a race to each creature, including artifact creatures). In the modern frame, WotC have actually been rather consistent with giving each creature a race - however there are exceptions.

Giants are in some instances used as a race, seen in Arbiter of Knollridge. And sometimes as an adjective to describe something immense, Diregraf Colossus. In Diregraf's situation it could be a zombified giant - then giant is the race and zombie is a state. However if that's true, is zombie then not ever a "race"?

Another is Yahenni, Undying Partisan which is an Aetherborn Vampire. Next to Midnight Entourage who is an Aetherborn Rogue. I think we can quickly agree that Rogue is a profession/title. Then Aetherborn must be a race. However we can also quickly agree that Vampire is a race, so Yahenni is half-Aetherborn, half-Vampire? It's a mess.

As for the mechanic itself, it is extremely narrow to the point that it can only ever see print in a heavy tribal set reminiscent of Lorwyn, Ixalan, or Innistrad. And it would have no relevance outside block. Not that that makes it bad per se, but it certainly makes it less exciting.

---

As for my own suggestion on Hunt, I'm sitting on two versions and would like some feedback on the concept if possible before deciding a final route. I'll note which version will be the main entry until I change my mind or the challenge ends - when is that btw dbpunk?

Mechanic Show

I am tempted to run a variant of the old Provoke keyword. It will be a mainly green mechanic with red and white closely secondary.

I'm kinda between two models:

1. Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

2. Hunt (After blockers are declared, you may have target creature defending player control block this creature if able, in addition to any other creature(s) that creature is blocking.)

No. 1 will be the main entry for the challenge until I decide otherwise.

---

The first model is turning multi-blockers upside-down, by forcing one blocker to block multiple attackers. It is also a functional but improved provoke, as it can function with just one, but it doesn't untap the creature, and it can ignore restrictions - such as Bedlam or Auntie's Snitch or the creature being tapped. You could counter provoke by tapping the creature before it could block. With this model, you ignore everything and basically says; "These two creatures fight in combat".

It is functionally different from fighting as it goes through the combat phase. Multiple users of Fight all receive the same damage from the attacked opponent, while this means the attacked only gets one count of power to use. As such multiple users of Hunt, can band together to take down a larger prey at greatly reduced risk to themselves.

It also interacts differently with ways to interact with creatures in combat, such as Righteousness or Bow of Nylea or simply Maze of Ith or the new Labyrinth of Skophos. Combat centered keywords or abilities also have a purpose in conjunction to Hunt, such as First Strike, Double Strike, and abilities that cares about attacking creatures. A card like Mark of Asylum prevents Fight from having any meaning, while the Mark is pointless against this variant. Dolmen Gate or Iroas, God of Victory functions really well with Hunt but not so with Fight. Similarly Holy Day does nothing to Fight, but stops Hunt.

Hunt is functionally weaker than Fight (at least as a stand alone mechanic), as Fight doesn't disable combat damage and there are many reasons why Fighting outside the combat step or even outside your own turn can be beneficial. As such I think you can allow Hunt more leg room and grant it to stronger/more efficient creatures than what we saw with Provoke. Provoke was mainly featured on bad midrange creatures with high power and low toughness, as a pseudo-removal.

And you can add conditions to it, check the examples.

Until I change my mind, this will be the main entry for the challenge.

---

The secondary model is a more flexible version that works better by itself, as it functionally allows any attacker with Hunt to be on the damage order for any creature defending player controls who can block. It's a delayed Provoke and grants a lot of decision power to the attacker by knowing all blockers before making a decision - not including combat tricks.

Where the first version is very much an indirect removal tool, in addition to Provoke's secondary utility which is disabling/distracting a blocker, best seen on Deftblade Elite. This secondary version is more a way to restructure combat to grant the attacker a leg-up after blockers are declared. Normally the defending player has the upper hand in combat, as they choose blockers for attackers. This Hunt mechanic tries to hand some power back to the attacking player.

I'm uncertain how fine a line is threaded under this model, as I can see it becoming a nightmare to defend against if a creature with Hunt can basically always be a moving target, meaning they will always have a chance to take down your creatures more efficiently. Your only saving grace would be combat tricks.

Examples for model 1 Show

Stalking Wolf

Creature - Wolf (Common)

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

2/3

---

Yellow-tailed Viper

Creature - Snake (Uncommon)

Deathtouch

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

2/1

---

Ardar Prowler

Creature - Cat (Rare)

First strike

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

4/4

---

On the Hunt

Sorcery (Uncommon)

Up to two target creatures gain Hunt until end of turn. (When a creature with Hunt attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

---

Training Warrior

Creature - Human Warrior (Uncommon)

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Whenever Training Warrior deals combat damage to a creature, put a +1/+1 counter on Training Warrior.

Training Warrior has Vigilance as long its power is 3 or more.

1/3

---

Seasoned Hunter

Creature - Human Soldier (Uncommon)

Hunt Beast, Cat, Snake, Wolf, and Bear (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target Beast, Cat, Snake, Wolf, or Bear creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Whenever a Beast, Cat, Snake, Wolf, or Bear dealt damage by Seasoned Hunter this turn dies, create a Treasure token.

3/3

---

Halt, Eagle Eyes

Legendary Creature - Human Soldier (Mythic Rare)

At the beginning of combat on your turn, Halt and up to two other creatures you control gain Hunt until end of turn. (When a creature with Hunt attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, if a creature you control have dealt damage to it this turn, you may draw a card.

3/6

---

Vorales of the Crimson Fang

Legendary Creature - Vampire (Rare)

Flying, Haste

At the beginning of combat on your turn, you may sacrifice another creature. If you do, Vorales gain Hunt until end of turn. (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Whenever a creature dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Vorales.

3/4

---

At the moment I will not make examples on the second variant.

January 28, 2020 7:53 a.m.

Boza says... #20

Tzefick, I think the first version is better. But there are a couple of issues. Ignoring blocking restrictions is not something that should be part of the ability. Provoke goes out of its way to untap the creature if it is tapped. I would suggest something like this:

(When ~ attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls. Hunted creatures untap and can block any number of Hunters this turn. You choose how hunted creatures block.)

I think that has the provoke feeling and still allows for the same "gang-up on a big creature" moment.

January 28, 2020 8:20 a.m.

ZendikariWol says... #21

Hunt N (When this creature goes on a hunt, exile it with N time counters on it. Return it to the battlefield when the last time counter is removed. When it enters the battlefield this way, it deals damage equal to its power to target creature.)

I... have some problems with this but it’s what I got. It’s templated now as though it’s an ability to activate from the battlefield, but I’m not sold on that. Otherwise, though, it just feels like suspend so. I guess.

January 28, 2020 10:02 a.m.

dbpunk says... #22

Im thinking of cutting off the challenge on Thursday Tzefick

January 28, 2020 11:38 a.m.

Tzefick says... #23

Response to Boza

response Show

Ignoring blocking restrictions is actually very thematic for the mechanic. If you hunt a target, it doesn't matter if that target is exhausted (tapped), a coward (can't block), or wouldn't normally be able to block an evasive attacker (like flying or unblockable - yes that is still the word in my book).

Take for instance the Provoke creature Swooping Talon. An evasive flier with provoke that you can pay mana for to make worse, just to make provoke function. All discussion about stats for CMC we push aside and merely focus on the mechanic that actively works against a normally positive characteristic of the creature. To fix it you can pay mana to remove this beneficial characteristic to make the mechanic function. That's either poor design or a very deliberate nonbo that makes the mechanic worse - and illogical.

Having provoke untap the targeted creature is a downside to the mechanic. I don't think Provoke was a very well received mechanic and it only appears on 9 creatures. MaRo stated that after Fight's introduction he rates Provoke a 7 on the Storm Scale (Unlikely to return in a Standard legal set, unless the setting is just right) and a couple of years later when Fight was declared evergreen, a 9 (basically it ain't gonna happen). But where Fight is usually an active or an ETB, Provoke (and now Hunt) is an easily triggered ability. Fight is more here and now as removal, while Hunt is a passive grind tool. One benefit of Hunt is that you can actually allow it on a large number of smaller creatures, without making it ridiculous nor bad. Fight is usually best in combination with a large creature.

Under my suggestion for hunt, that combination between evasion and Hunt serves to protect the hunter, against any other blocker who cannot block the evasive creature.

I don't see any reason why the mechanic cannot ignore restrictions on blocking from a rules perspective. And from a gameplay perspective, I figure this version is a lot more intuitive for a player who doesn't carry baggage from Provoke they try to cram down over this mechanic. In principle, instead of attacking a player, a hunter attacks a creature the defending player controls. The mechanic is self-contained within the combat phase and if the hunted creature leaves the battlefield, it doesn't carry over characteristics like being hunted - so you cannot get into situations where a creature ignores restrictions and suddenly blocks from the graveyard, exile or hand or whatever.

---

Just some rule discussion about the suggested revision Show

Your suggestion for a revised mechanic has a couple of holes in it as far as I can see.

(When ~ attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls. Hunted creatures untap and can block any number of Hunters this turn. You choose how hunted creatures block.)

"You choose how hunted creatures block", is usually pointless unless you can also choose which creatures DO block. Can be fixed by saying the hunted creature must block if able.

"Hunted creatures untap and can block any number of Hunters this turn." This would normally lead me to believe Hunters were a creature type and not a derivative term for a creature who has Hunt. Should be fixable by changing it to "can block any number of creatures with Hunt".

This is a triggered ability that targets and resolves individually. If you include an untap all clause in each trigger, it could lead to some weird interactions, where activated tap abilities could be utilized for some unintended scenarios. Imagine an opponent having Cryptolith Rite out. If you attack and hunt 5 of his creatures, the first creature in order can tap for 1 mana, but stays hunted. The next trigger will untap the first and the second... and so forth - I think you can see the problem.

I would think your revised version could be something like:

(When ~ attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls. Untap that creature, until end of combat it must block if able and it can block any number of creatures with Hunt. You choose how it blocks.)

Then again I don't actually want the same weaknesses that apply to Provoke, apply to Hunt as well.

January 29, 2020 8:28 a.m.

Tzefick says... #24

ZendikariWol What does "Going on a hunt" entail?

It doesn't seem like you flesh out your ideas very much when you post on this challenge... Please make sure that all actions are accounted for in your mechanic and that it is written on the card what you need to do. It's a very good idea to make at least one example of the mechanic on a card - as it would be printed. Then follow the instructions very mechanically (as in a machine) and see if you would understand it, as if it was a new card.

January 29, 2020 8:43 a.m.

dbpunk says... #25

Ok so decisions on the mechanics are due today, so lets do this:

TypicalTimmy- I too was a fan of cipher. However, the memory issues with Cipher kind of differed from this, where cipher you had the cards off to the side or under the creature they were ciphered on. This one... could get confusing.

Boza- I tried warning you your mechanic wouldnt work. Not because of the creature typing thing, that was an interesting portion of it (although there would be an onslaught of "magic racism" jokes) but because you said "at the beginning of your end step" and then talked about combat. There isnt combat after end step. Im gonna assume this was a mistake, but also it adds unnecessary complexity to do it each turn, even if the creature isnt attacking.

Mj3913- Youre the only one who applied counters in this... which actually makes a lot of sense. Also its rare to see a counter type that goes on an opponents creature and cares about how many of those counters there are. Interesting. However it also seems really parasitic.

Tzefick- To be honest, you cant have something saying "ignoring all restrictions" like some cards let you change the properties of a card so it can block properly but still. Eithwr way, I like the ideas behind it.

My choices:

4th- Boza: it seems like an interesting idea... but it could get really complicated and annoying to play with or against.

3rd: Tzefick: Cool concept and in many ways it feels familiar. But at the same time its in a few ways plain and not really that good for game play.

2nd: TypicalTimmy: I like the idea, but there is some huge issues with the memory that stops it from being a great mechanic.

1st (the winner): Mj3913: Youre mechanic is as interesting as the others, but its also the one with the most functionality and the most likely to work well in gameplay. Nice job!

Also... Im kind of surprised no one thought of things outside of hunting animals.

January 30, 2020 2:17 p.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #26

Thanks! I am however at a loss for words right now... or 'word' rather. Also I recently had a go at it, so in the spirit of fair play I'd like to give the opportunity to next in line TypicalTimmy.

January 30, 2020 4:24 p.m.

ZendikariWol says... #27

Lavasteppe Bushwhacker

Creature- Human Barbarian

Affiliate to Goblins (sources you control count Lavasteppe Bushwhacker as a goblin in addition to its other types.)

Creatures you control that share a type with Lavasteppe Bushwhacker get +1/+0 and have haste.

2/2

---

It could be a useful element in a kind of unconventional tribal set. Idk what the set would look like, but it would be an interesting way to mess with the conventional color identity of certain tribes, to make playing tribal in draft quite a bit less on-rails without defaulting to the Changeling mechanic, and to provide some really solid constructed cards.

---

Bold Paragon

Creature- Human Noble

Affiliate to Peasants (sources you control count Bold Paragon as a peasant in addition to its other types.)

Creatures that share a type with Bold Paragon enter the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on them.

1/1

---

Does the templating on this work?? I feel like it does, but the rules may disagree...

January 30, 2020 11:28 p.m.

Boza says... #28

dbpunk

Final thoughts and lessons learned on why should proofread your mechanics and explanation Show

I now understand the confusion, so let me explain post-factum. My hunt mechanic triggers in the end step allowing you choose a race to hunt. Then, every combat after that end step you get a delayed triggered ability if you are blocking or being blocked by the race you last chose. Since what creatures your opponent has will vary, allowing to choose a different race each turn will help a lot, as having a blank ability if you successfully poach all creatures of that race would be boring. I specifically made it your end step, since this buffs blocking Hunters by allowing them to hunt the correct thing on the opponents turn. In hindsight, to make it clear I should have "gets +X/+X when blocking or being blocked by the last race chosen this way" to help clarify it more.

I will post with the Affiliate keyword soon.

January 31, 2020 3:53 a.m.

Boza says... #29

Go big or go home Affiliate mechanic Show

An unnamed business focused world (like Mercadia, but fiercer) spawned the Affiliate mechanic. It is based on affiliate marketing or multi-level-marketing or a pyramid scheme. When you reach the top of the reaches.

Affiliate (When you cast ~, create a Gold token for each permanent with this ability. When your gold tokens are equal to or greater the number of permanents you control with affiliate plus 10, you win the game.)

However, all affiliate cards create some sort of advantage for your opponent as well, making it a risky mechanic.

Eg. you control 1 permanent with affiliate and you cast another , you create 1 gold token. If your opponent controlled one as well, you create 2 gold tokens - it counts all permanents with the ability. If that brings your total gold to 11 or more tokens (before the new Affiliate enters the battlefield or 12 after it does), the second part, which is a state-based trigger, triggers, and you win the game.

Gold tokens are the same as Treasure - sac it to gain 1 mana of any color.

Affiliate cards Show

Marketing Merchant
Creature - Human Trader (Common)

Affiliate (When you cast ~, create a Gold token for each permanent with this ability. When your gold tokens are equal to or greater the number of permanents you control with affiliate plus 10, you win the game.)

When ~ enters the battlefield, create 1/1 Trader token with affiliate for your opponent.

2/4

Market Stall
Artifact - Vehicle (Uncommon)

Affiliate
When ~ blocks or becomes blocked, create a Gold token for each player. Crew 2

2/8

Gwafa Hazid, Merchant Mogul
Legendary Creature - Human Trader

Affiliate ,: Target opponent draws 2 cards. You create a 1/1 Trader token with Affiliate.

2/4

January 31, 2020 6:50 a.m.

ZendikariWol says... #30

Also, with cards like Bold Paragon, it lets you have cards that care about a certain tribe without entirely being part of them. I think Bold Paragon's playtest name is Harvey Dent.

January 31, 2020 10:35 a.m.

ZendikariWol says... #31

Boza, I.. have some gripes. It's a flavorful and cool mechanic, but it's just. So. Broken. It feels like Design was like "this is really cool," passed it off to development, and development just burst into tears on the spot.

1) It's a wincon that can't be countered.

2) Board complexity. The number of creatures you need to win the game changes constantly, which is annoying to keep track of on its own, but the number of tokens you get scales too?? Your opponent constantly has to count cards on your side of the board, and it just totally flies in the face of new world order. I cannot stress enough how annoying this mechanic would be to track.

3) These tokens are easy to make and artifacts are hard to get rid of- especially for certain colors. This really hoses blue (especially because it CAN'T BE COUNTERED- seriously, I can not get over that) and black, and white and green would find it quite difficult to deal with as well (Naturalize costs two mana and a card and using it to get rid of a token you have seven of feels baaaad). Red has artifact wipes so they're better, but still, those board wiped are costly.

4) it encourages players not to use a resource they have, and that's not fun. It's making the player not do something they tend to wanna do.

5) WotC tries to stay away from "I win the game on the spot" cards. They failed recently and notably with Thassa's Oracle, but they have made it clear that their policy is trying to keep it to the upkeep.

6) An alternate win condition with the as-fan of a mechanic is ludicrous. If there are enough cards to make it work as a wincon then it's already broken (two words: Heartless Summoning).

7) if the players, instead of using this as an "I win the game" tool, use it to ramp, this not only gives a big middle finger to the color pie (reminiscent of Phyrexian mana), but also provides a TON of ramp. It's like if someone took a look at every mistake that Eldrazi Spawn subverted and was like "hey fam, what if we make all those?" If you want me to dig into that comparison more, I'd be glad to.

January 31, 2020 11:58 a.m.

Boza says... #32

It is a go big or go home mechanic, after all.

Making a concise response Show

1/ You can counter it by destroying either the creatures. Blue can bounce the treasure tokens. In fact, bouncing the tokens would be very good - since every permanent with affiliate increase the win condition counter, while every treasure token decreases. If you bounce the token that was created by a creature, that net minus 2 for the opponent. Moving the token creation to cast was maybe a mistake, but still not really that bad. Whirlwind Denial for example.

2/ Board complexity is not that much more than city's blessing for Rivals of Ixalan. You have to count only two types of permanents - gold tokens and permanents with the Affiliate ability.

3/ This is only one mechanic of a supposed set, any other mechanics can interact with it to counterbalance.

4/ You have highlighted the natural tension in the mechanic well. I view it as similar to the outlast mechanic, where you have a tough choice, because the ability is sorcery speed. Additionally, all the cards highlighted give a benefit to the opponents as well, making it a hyper tension-filled.

5/Wotc always prints at least 1 you win the game card per set. Throne has Happily Ever After, WAR has Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, Simic Ascendancy in RNA, Revel in Riches, the base for this mechanic, was in Ixalan. They do not have an extra wincon mechanic being part of the set, yet.

6/ It is indeed, while I do not think this is good enough to see print, I think that WOTC will eventually make such a mechanic. However, there is infect already printed, so...

7/ Yeah, but Ixalan treasures did not break the color pie in half. They were minor additions to weaker cards to buff them. I am making a stronger, yet similar mechanic, and balancing it on more symmetrical effects and ability to use the resources to ramp instead of win.

In essence, I like to be as bold as possible with my mechanics. Pushing the envelope does not work always and I should be a bit more based in my designs, but hey. This is a mechanic for specific demographic of Magic players, which does not start with the letter J or S.

I found this a very hard word to design for. It is evident from the rough design, but I stand by it. I had two other fully fleshed designs that I scrapped prior to this.

I am also not admitting this mechanic was an excuse to make another Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer card.

January 31, 2020 12:27 p.m. Edited.

ZendikariWol says... #33

Well, Boza... if you understand the issues with your mechanic and choose to do your best to make it work anyway, that’s respectable. Good on you.

January 31, 2020 1:21 p.m.

dbpunk says... #34

Affiliate - As this permanent enters the battlefield, name a permanent. Those cards are affiliated.

Examples:

Death Striker (Common)

Creature - Snake

Affiliate

As long as ~ is affiliated with a creature, it gets +1/+1 and deathtouch.

1/1

Soldier of Vanaheim (Uncommon)

Creature - Human Soldier

Affiliate

Whenever a permanent ~ is affiliated with is tapped, you gain 2 life.

2/4

Hardened Soul (rare)

Enchantment

Affiliate

Whenever a a player casts a spell that shares a color with the affiliated permanent, return a permanent from your graveyard to your hand.

Sonia, Archangel Queen (mythic rare)

Legendary Creature - Angel Noble

Flying, Haste

Affiliate

Whenever a permanent with converted mana cost less than a permanent affiliated with ~ gets dealt damage, exile it.

4/6

January 31, 2020 9:16 p.m.

Woiteck says... #35

Hello after some time off, everyone!

I thought of a rare enchantment cycle for a multiplayer game, where you give up the ability to interact with one opponent to gain profit from their various actions. I wasn’t however able to come up with the black one as it seems the most difficult to design. Nevertheless, I think you’ll get the idea. If anyone feels up to it, they can finish the cycle.

Mechanic

Affiliate: When ~ enters the battlefield, choose an opponent. Creatures you control can’t attack the chosen opponent. The chosen opponent and non-planeswalker permanents they control can’t be the target of spells and abilities you control.

Examples

Live Together

Enchantment - Rare

Affiliate

Whenever the chosen opponent plays a land card, you may search your library for a basic land card, reveal it and put it in your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.

_

Think Together

Enchantment - Rare

Affiliate

Whenever the chosen opponent draws a card, you may draw a card.

_

Act Together

Enchantment - Rare

Affiliate

Whenever the chosen opponent casts a sorcery or instant spell, you may copy it. You may choose new targets for the copy.

_

Stand Together

Enchantment - Rare

Affiliate

Whenever a nontoken creature enters the battlefield under the chosen opponent’s control, you may create a token that’s a copy of it.

February 1, 2020 10:57 a.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #36

TypicalTimmy all yours. Been trying to come up with an example of my own but time hasn't exactly been on my side lately.

February 1, 2020 6:19 p.m.

Tzefick says... #37

Allow me to suggest a revision dbpunk, to not be an alternative but weaker Soulbond, and instead makes it a network kinda mechanic that keeps spreading its influence:

Affiliate (When ~ enters the battlefield, put an affiliate counter on up to one other target permanent you control.) - it could place an affiliate counter on itself too.

changes to the suggested cards Show

For the snake:

As long as you control another creature with an affiliate counter, ~ gets +1/+1 and has deathtouch.

---

Soldier:

Whenever a permanent you control with an affiliate counter on it is tapped, you gain 2 life.

---

Enchantment:

Whenever a player casts a spell that shares a color with a permanent you control with an affiliate counter, you may return a permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.

---

Angel:

Whenever a creature or planeswalker an opponent controls is dealt damage, if that permanent has less converted mana cost than the highest converted mana cost among permanents you control with an affiliate counter, exile that permanent.

---

It changes the power of the mechanic and makes it more synergistic with itself to ever increasing value. The mechanic you suggest is very reminiscent of Soulbond, which was a liked mechanic. It did have issues with memory of who is paired with who though. With Soulbond people usually placed the paired creatures beside each other. With Affiliate, you can pair across permanent supertypes - with creatures affiliating with lands or planeswalkers or whatever. It makes it less practical to place such permanents side by side.

Placing a counter to show affiliate and have that work with any permanent or spell who cares about affiliate, makes it easier to know who's affected and what you can expect from it. It does however make the mechanic way more powerful than the suggested reskinned version of Soulbond, as any previous affiliated permanent may become relevant to a future card that cares about affiliate. That's not a bad thing in my eyes though.

---

By the way, "Affiliate - As this permanent enters the battlefield, name a permanent. Those cards are affiliated." - this makes you able to name any permanent card in Magic's history, not necessarily a permanent on the board. It also makes it able to affiliate with itself, by choosing its own name. I do think you wanted to make it function basically like Soulbond, if I'm not entirely mistaken, so that's what I went with in the revised version.

Feedback on Boza's suggestion Show

Boza I wont be as drastic as ZendikariWol, but this mechanic just screams to be abused in a recasting shell. I doubt it's gonna be fast enough for eternal formats, except maybe Commander. In Standard however, the ability to pump out banked mana, is a control shell's wet dream. Usually they rely on instant speed card advantage tricks to pull ahead if they don't use their mana for counter or kill spells, but this mechanic effectively gives them a way to advance their board (if for nothing else, then defense) AND keep mana open. If they wont need the mana, they merely advance their alternate win condition. As such I would not expect it to see print in a Standard set, unless it is hyper aggressive or with efficient and widely available artifact removal.

That the ability triggers on cast is also a bit anti-climatic. Like Zendikari says, it makes the ability harder to counter, but on the same level, it makes it easier to make the mechanic irrelevant. If the trigger is on cast, you wont get the benefit of the creature you cast with Affiliate - as it's not yet on the board. Just keep killing or countering the Affiliate creatures and the caster wont see a single Gold coin...

It also makes the Legendary merchant's ability very peculiar, as you don't get the benefit of Affiliate on the token on entry, but on cast. Effectively the token just adds more gold gained by another trigger of Affiliate but also increases the threshold... Counter intuitive but not entirely without purpose.

I also don't get why having creatures with affiliates makes it harder to win with the mechanic. It also gives less incentive for your opponent to remove your stuff, as removing them basically makes it easier to achieve the goal. The 6th creature with affiliate is the one who nets you the win, if you haven't used any gold tokens since, none gained otherwise and none removed. That's a lot of cards to play. Although once you start gaining a good sum of gold from the triggers, you can effectively keep casting more and more, for ever greater sums of gold and eventually win.

Thought experiment; if we assume you have a supply of 9 pieces of 3 CMC Affiliate creatures, you can go off after casting the 3rd. Each generating ever more gold, which can cast the next in line. After casting the 9th, the ability puts you at 18 gold tokens, and the creature is still on the stack, so you only have 8 creatures with Affiliate and win.

ZendikariWol It is counterable, as it's just an ability on cast. Those are harder to counter, true, but not uncounterable. If you keep killing/countering the Affiliate cards, the mechanic is a dud without purpose. Also if you counter the creature with Affiliate and remove any other permanent they control with it, the mechanic cannot cause the win, as it is a static ability. Which is actually a flaw in the design as I don't recall a static ability that causes a win condition. It always hinges on something else happening beforehand. See Felidar Sovereign, Maze's End, Test of Endurance, Thassa's Oracle, Laboratory Maniac. All hinges on some kind of trigger or action beforehand that then checks if you win.

Do consider that if people really went with this as their only win condition, up until the point they can win, the mechanic is largely irrelevant for the opponent. Similarly like Helix Pinnacle. If there's a good mass of these cards, obviously they just go into a control shell as one of multiple win conditions. But if you have to be very conservative and not use these gold tokens if you want to win through them, you're at a huge disadvantage.

I disagree with so many of your points against Boza's mechanic, but I do agree that it is unlikely to happen - at least in Standard. Outside Standard I highly doubt it'll be fast enough. Depends on the number and cheapness of the cards obviously. Free mana is always dangerous to play with - looking at Delve mainly. However CMC 3+ only are way too slow to function, especially if they also tend to provide a benefit for the opponent.

February 1, 2020 9:03 p.m.

Tzefick says... #38

Feedback on Woiteck's suggestion Show

This mechanic seems rather broken for pillowfort strategies that don't seek to interact much with their opponents directly but rather just keep their opponents from attacking them and eventually turn up an alternate win-condition.

As for the mechanic itself, let me suggest this templating:

Templating Show

Name cost

Enchantment - Aura Curse

Enchant player

Affiliate (When ~ enters the battlefield, target opponent gains control of this permanent.)

Enchanted player can't attack you or planeswalkers you control.

Enchanted player can't target you, spells you control, permanents you control, or cards in your graveyard with spells or abilities.

~Beneficial effect, like; Whenever you play a land card, enchanted player may search their library for a basic land card and put it into their hand, then shuffle their library.~

---

You cannot retract this affiliation directly, as you don't control the permanent causing it and thus cannot target it without going Cyclonic Rift-esque on it.

As for the black one, how about "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under the chosen opponent's control, you may return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand. If you do, create a black Zombie creature token with power and toughness equal to the returned creature's power and toughness."

Personally I don't think this is good design. Neat concept, but very skewed. Some strategies don't care about the downside at all, thus it grants too much benefit at basically no cost. Not to mention the actual costs of the suggestions are very low.

February 1, 2020 9:41 p.m.

Boza says... #39

Paging Dr TypicalTimmy! Come to the Ability Challenge room, stat! The thread is in the custom cards forum - I use the most active list to find, which is, thanks to all the wonderful participants near the top. I think I can petition for a sticky.

February 7, 2020 7:58 a.m.

ZendikariWol says... #40

All righty, folks. I underestimated the difficulty of coming up with really fun, open-ended words.

What I ended up falling on is "combine." I'm really interested to see what you guys cook up. I have... no idea, this might be a hard one... idrk!

February 7, 2020 2:29 p.m.

dbpunk says... #41

I have a more unset mechanic for this, although its actually good:

Combo - For each token type you control, ___.

This basically activates based on different tokens, such as getting a larger effect for having both a zombie token and a demon token rather than just two demon tokens.

For example:

Burger Combo #9 (common)

Sorcery

Combo - Gain X life, where X is the number of different types of tokens you control.

Do You Want Fries With That? (Uncommon)

Instant

Combo - Target creature gets -X/-X until end of turn, where X is the number of different types of tokens you control.

Gyro Bob, King of Gyros (Rare)

Legendary Creature - Human Frycook

~ has all abilities of all creatures you control, including keyworded abilities.

Combo - ~ gets +1/+1 for each type of token among permanents you control.

0/0

Return to Taco Hell (Mythic)

Sorcery

Combo - Put all creatures power X or less from graveyards to the battlefield under your control, then each opponent sacrifices a creature for each type of token you control.

February 8, 2020 6:16 p.m.

Boza says... #42

Combo mechanic Show

Combo is a non-color specific mechanic that will be a main mechanic of a future unknown standard set. It is present on permanents only and comes in two varieties:

On non-creature cards - Combo - If ~ does not have a combo counter and a creature entered the battlefield under your control, do X and put a combo counter on ~.

On creature cards - Combo - If ~ does not have a combo counter and a non-creature permanent enters the battlefield under your control, do X and put a combo counter on ~.

To make a combo with a combo creature, you have to play a non-creature permanent and vice versa. Combo cannot "proc" more than once per game, unless something resets it.

Reset (Clear all counters from this card). Not all combo cards will have a way to reset.

Two keywords for the price of one!

Combo cards Show

Crafter of Oddities
Creature - Vedalken Artificier (common)

Combo - If ~ does not have a combo counter and a non-creature permanent enters the battlefield under your control, choose one and put a combo counter on this card:

• Create a 1/1 Thopter artifact token with flying.
• Create a 2/2 Zombie artifact token.

1/3

Invigorating Surplus
Enchantment (Uncommon)

Combo - If ~ does not have a combo counter and a creature entered the battlefield under your control, you may discard a card at random to draw two cards. Put a combo counter on this card.

When any player gains life, reset this card.

Krewlod, The Rattle King
Legendary Creature - Giant Skeleton Warrior (Rare)

Haste Combo - If ~ does not have a combo counter and a non-creature permanent enters the battlefield under your control, other Skeletons you control gain +2/+2 until end of turn. Put a combo counter on ~.
Whenever another Skeleton enters the battlefield, reset this card.

7/7

February 10, 2020 8:52 a.m.

Tzefick says... #43

I find I have a hard time coming up with suggestions for the last couple of keywords. It seems like we've run into a few keywords that are simply harder to craft a mechanic around, first with affiliate and now with combine. Not that that's an issue, it is after all a challenge thread.

Combine would for me lend itself too much toward meld and that type of mechanic. To combine is to put two elements together to make something different, often better than their individual selves. As such it could also lend itself to Soulbond and that type of mechanic.

A slightly different take, that will also be my suggestion, is a combination of magic before either of the previous mechanics would take effect.

The mechanic

Combine X (As an additional cost to cast ~, you may discard an X card from your hand. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield transformed.)

Examples: Combine Instant (As an additional cost to cast ~, you may discard an instant card from your hand. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield transformed.)

Combine Nonland (As an additional cost to cast ~, you may discard a nonland card from your hand. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield transformed.)

The basic principle is that you combine the energies from a certain type of magics to enhance the original spell.

The mechanic is mainly found on creatures, but can possibly be found on other card types, as the mechanic is largely flexible. I'll not place it in a specific color either.

Examples

Joral Conjurer

Creature - Human Wizard (uncommon)

Flash

Combine Instant (As an additional cost to cast ~, you may discard an Instant card from your hand. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield transformed.)

2/3

//

Joral Trickmage

Creature - Human Wizard

When ~ enters the battlefield, counter target spell.

2/3

---

Riz Flamecaller

Creature - Human Shaman (Common)

Combine Instant/Sorcery (As an additional cost to cast ~, you may discard an Instant or Sorcery card from your hand. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield transformed.)

When ~ enters the battlefield, create a 2/1 red Elemental creature token.

1/1

//

Blazing Elemental

(red indicator) Creature - Elemental

Menace

3/2

---

Aspring Prince

Creature - Human Noble (rare)

Combine Land and Creature (As an additional cost to cast ~, you may discard a Land and a Creature card from your hand. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield transformed.)

First Strike

3/3

//

Thahan, King of Guhal

(white color indicator) Legendary Creature - Human Noble

First Strike

Other Nobles and Humans you control get +1/+1.

At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 white Human Noble.

4/4

---

Devoted Celebrant

Creature - Human Cleric (Common)

Lifelink

Combine Aura (As an additional cost to cast ~, you may discard an Aura card from your hand. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield transformed.)

2/1

//

Harmonic Priest

(white color indicator) Enchantment Creature - Human Cleric

Lifelink

Whenever you gain your third life each turn, draw a card.

2/3

---

Insatiable Hunger

Instant (Uncommon)

Combine Creature (As an additional cost to cast ~, you may discard a Creature card from your hand.)

Destroy target creature. If you combined ~, instead destroy two target creatures.

---

Thoughts and closing

The mechanic is a bit tricky to balance, as discarding is not a similarly gated cost as a mana cost. Some decks/colors have no issue drawing and discarding cards, while others are more reluctant to squander their few cards away. As such it's a balancing act between giving enough incentive while neither providing too much free stuff for something that is not gated behind mana (and usually turn number).

There's also the inherent drawback there is with auras, that you risk being 2-for-1. However I figure the cost being just to discard the card, and not also being behind on mana, makes it a much less problematic scenario, at least tempo-wise. The pay-off is also frontloaded, granting you the (often) better version of the card right away.

I tried with the Shaman to make a scenario where your decision on using combine would be choice between two different pathways, and not just an upgrade when using combine. I think these types of cards are the more interesting to evaluate.

The mechanic also has a supplementary strength, when you can turn otherwise largely dead cards into fuel for mediocre cards. Say you run Glare of Heresy Mainboard and you run against a non-white opponent. If you had a card with Combine Instant or Nonland, you could ditch the useless card to improve the Combine-card. That's certainly a flexible strength in deck building. Furthermore making it more complicated to balance the strength of the cards between colors - based on what format/environment they are printed in.

I think the mechanic has a lot of leeway to both be used for a Standard and especially for a Modern or Commander focused product.

February 10, 2020 11:51 a.m.

Tzefick says... #44

Feedback on other suggestions:

TypicalTimmy I'm fairly certain WotC officially axed the use of non +1/+1 counters. You could still get that effect by having you exile the creature and the combined on creature get +X/+Y, like it's said on The Mimeoplasm.

dbpunk Wouldn't it be cleaner to have the effect; Where X is equal to the number of different creature types among tokens you control. Specifies it as creature types, instead of perhaps supertypes like creature/artifact. Also it removes counting Gold, Food, Clue, Treasure and similar artifact tokens.

Boza Instead of using a term "Reset", just have those effects remove the Combo counter. Simple and clean.

February 10, 2020 2:08 p.m.

Tzefick says... #45

Eh... Phyrexian Ingester was the card I wanted, not Mimeoplasm.

February 10, 2020 2:10 p.m.

Boza says... #46

Tzefick, while simplifying the card that way is probably the right way, it does not invoke the fighting game terminology without the term "reset", as in those types of games combos and resets are cornerstones of gameplay.

February 11, 2020 3:54 a.m.

Tzefick says... #47

Boza But then you need to specify what reset means in the world of MtG and so a newcomer can understand it, with reference to the rules. Putting Reset as part of the rules, is a rather big step for implementing a new mechanic. It would need to have a lot of follow-up use for it to be cemented as a term defined by the rules and not on the card.

February 11, 2020 4:07 a.m.

Boza says... #48

Tzefick, that is why it is worded like this: "Reset (Remove all counters from a permanent)" This is the Vampire Hexmage as an ability and given that is a legacy playable card, the applications of having this on something with added utility is great.

February 11, 2020 4:30 a.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #49

Ability

Combine in this instance will be like Fuse on a split card with one exception. When you Combine the spell you combine the costs and transform it. This allows for a few different strategies to be played in early game (first half, low cost), mid game (second half, mid cost), or late game (combined).

The only downside I think is if you want both creatures separately you'd have to have multiple cards which isn't ideal in singleton formats. Were this to appear in a set I think a marker would be included in packs in the token slot so there's less confusion about which side was cast.

Combine (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand. If both, flip this card.)

Examples

Examples will be fewer this go around because it's basically three cards per card created. Sorry for the not so inventive names, but simplicity helps the number of words and space req's.

Legend: First Half: FH, Second Half: SH, Flip Side: FLS

Common

FH: Innocent Child

Creature - Human

Lifelink

1/1

---

SH: Vampiric Bat

Creature - Vampire Bat

Flying

When ~ enters the battlefield target player loses 2 life and you gain 2 life

3/3

Combine (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand. If both, flip this card.)

---

FLS: Vampiric Child ( identity)

Creature - Vampire

Flying, Lifelink

When ~ enters the battlefield target player loses 3 life and you gain 3 life.

4/4

Uncommon

FH: Fervent Storm Mage

Creature - Human Wizard

Haste

Prowess

1/1

---

SH: Shrouded Drake

Creature - Drake

Flying

Prowess

Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell target creature cannot be blocked this turn.

2/2

Combine (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand. If both, flip this card.)

---

FLS: Rider of the Storm ( identity)

Creature - Human Wizard

Flying, Haste

Prowess

Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or you cast an instant or sorcery spell target creature cannot be blocked this turn.

3/3

Rare

FH: Elven Beastcaller

Creature - Elf Shaman

Haste

: add or

1/1

---

SH: Wild Boar

Creature - Boar

Trample

When ~ enters the battlefield you may have it Fight a creature you don't control.

5/4

Combine (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand. If both, flip this card.)

---

FLS: Tempted Wurm ( identity)

Creature - Wurm

Trample, Haste

When ~ enters the battlefield you may have it fight a creature you don't control. If another creature dies as a result, ~ gets +3/+0 until end of turn.

6/5

Mythic

FH: Fallen Knight

Creature - Zombie

Deathtouch

: ~ becomes Indestructible until end of turn.

If a creature blocking nor blocked by ~ dies, return it to the battlefield tapped under your control. It is a black zombie in addition to its other types.

2/2

---

SH: Wild Steed

Creature - Horse

Trample

When ~ attacks another attacking creature gains trample until end of turn.

3/3 Combine (You may cast one or both halves of this card from your hand. If both, flip this card.)

---

FLS: Fallen Knight( identity)

Creature - Zombie Knight

Deathtouch, Trample

: ~ gains Indestructible until end of turn.

Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player return a creature from a graveyard to the battlefield.

4/4

February 11, 2020 1 p.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #50

My proof reading sucks apparently, corrections below... Totally forgot about Meld until reading your comment TypicalTimmy, but now I can see it does seem like a cleaner version instead of having 2 half hard separate.

Corrections

(Uncommon) the drake should read 'non creature spell' because it is linked to the prowess benefit. I just forgot it was not limited to instants and sorceries for some reason.

(Rare) more of a hindsight correction... all the cards just add P/T of both sides together, and I'm feeling the flip side should be a touch bigger being mean and green and rare...

(Mythic) first half should be named Fallen Rider - Zombie Soldier because a knight is not a knight without his trusty steed. XD

February 14, 2020 10:34 p.m.