What is Your Opinion of Hybrid Cards in EDH?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on May 28, 2020, 9:34 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Hybrid cards in EDH are a very contentious subject for the MtG community, so I wish to discuss it, here, to learn everyone's opinion on the matter.
Some players feel that hybrid cards should be allowed in decks whose generals do not contain both colors of those cards in their color identity, while other players feel that that should not be allowed: for example, allowing Unmake or Balefire Liege in a deck with Akroma, Angel of Wrath as its general.
I, myself, believe that hybrid cards should not be allowed in an EDH deck unless the general of that deck contains all colors in its color identity, because it would undermine the importance of color identity in that format.
For example, both Hearthfire Hobgoblin and Iroas's Champion are always both red and white, despite the fact that the hobgoblin does not need both colors of mana to be cast, so it would not make any sense for it to be allowed into a deck that did not contain both of those colors.
What does everyone else say about this? What is your opinion of hybrid cards in EDH?
TonyStark9001 says... #3
the rules are the rules and unless a group decides to house rule it a different way, it doesn't matter.
May 28, 2020 11:35 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
On topic, you should have to have both colors in your General's identity to run hybrid mana symbol cards. To me the flavor of hybrid mana symbols is that the spell/ability is both of those colors, but either can be used to catalyze the spell/ability. This isn't a hill I will die on though. If the RC said tomorrow that they are changing the way color identity works I wouldn't care.
May 28, 2020 11:37 p.m.
Similar to others above, although I side more firmly with color identity being important. I'm to the point where I'm not digging on all these WUBRG genericos being tossed around these days.
May 29, 2020 12:30 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #7
Gidgetimer, first, I cannot believe that I made that mistake; perhaps Balefire Liege would have been a better example. Second, I am very glad that you agree with me on this subject.
May 29, 2020 7:43 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #8
Gleeock, I agree with you, as well; I am glad that WotC has been printing a greater number of legendary creatures with all five colors in their identity, recently, because more options are always better, but I do feel that they have been somewhat excessive with that, since having too many of such creatures makes them feel less special and also removes the challenges associated with building new decks.
May 29, 2020 7:46 a.m.
DemonDragonJ for me it is not so much about restrictions & it is more about identity. I like it when, for example-lets say, Rakdos is the color of crazy politics... So you have that player that sortof specializes as that crazy politics Rakdos guy, but then its: well, WUBRG politics does it better. WUBRG should be rare & historically connected characters of major import, like Ramos, Dragon Engine
. People may like them but: Golos, Tireless Pilgrim, Kenrith, the Returned King, Najeela, the Blade-Blossom are superfluous... This comes from someone who likes Kenrith very much. So yeah, color identity is important to me & it says something to me when a player sticks to their guns on their specialty.
May 29, 2020 8:42 a.m.
The nature of hybrid Mana's purpose and function in the game is not exclusivity but inclusivity! I would argue that hybrid Mana costs should be able to be included in any (especially mono color) decks that could cast them because they were originally designed to be castable in monocolor decks by WotC anyways.
May 29, 2020 8:57 a.m.
GhostChieftain says... #11
I think they are fine in decks that contain a single color that they are. The rc decided when they made the format how color identity worked for deckbuilding and because of that people seem to really be against hybrid, but it could have been worded differently or an addendum for hybrid could have been added easily and very little difference overall would be made apart from blue decks needing to worry about Vexing Shushers more. That being said, I don't think they absolutely need to be allowed to work the way they normally do in other formats. It annoys me a bit that they don't, but it isn't a big issue in my eyes and I can just continue to play hybrid as I have no problem (only with both colors available to my deck).
May 29, 2020 9:09 a.m.
Hybrid mana cards were meant to be card that could be either color, and are not a color pie break if the card exists in only one of the two colors used to cast it. So to that end, I would say that hybrid mana should be allowed in EDH in decks that can cast them with only their basic lands.
To use your examples, Hearthfire Hobgoblin has its monocolor counterparts in Fabled Hero (which is the same card with an up-side) and Markov Blademaster (which is initially weaker but if it hits an opponent on its first attack will actually be stronger)
But for an even more perfect example of how hybrid mana is just one card that could have otherwise been two separate cards, I think Nature's Chant is the perfect example. Disenchant and Naturalize were already color shifted versions of the same card that showed that for 2 mana both green and white can destroy artifact and enchantments at instant speed. Nature's Chant is a card that is both cards smashed together into a hybrid version of the same effect.
There may be examples out there.... but for me at this point, I can't think of any example where a hybrid card breaks the color pie.
May 29, 2020 4:28 p.m.
CastleSiege says... #13
WotC's original philosophy for hybrid cards was that the card's design could fall into either color's color pie. Based on that, I feel hybrid cards should be allowed in commander. However, it seems WotC has betrayed that philosophy. Take Gyruda, Doom of Depths for example. Milling is predominantly a blue and black ability, but creature reanimation is not something blue can do. Gyruda should be a gold creature, not hybrid, as it breaks the colorpie. If this is the future of hybrid cards then they should not be legal in off color decks (as much as I want to put Gyruda in my mono blue sea creatures deck)
May 30, 2020 1:22 a.m. Edited.
LarryAction says... #14
The literal design of hybrid cards is that they can be either color so it's pretty fucking retarded that EDH specifically chooses to ignore that.
May 30, 2020 9 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #15
Boy, with a well reasoned and insightful opinion like that; who could argue?
May 30, 2020 9:15 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #16
LarryAction, except that they are not either color, they are both colors; for example, Scourge of the Nobilis will give the same bonuses to either Hearthfire Hobgoblin or Iroas's Champion, so, by that logic, I stand by my opinion that only a general with both colors in their color identity should allow hybrid cards.
May 30, 2020 11:21 a.m.
Creatures having a color is already something you can break in commander, though. You can use Painter's Servant naming in your Elesh Norn deck (not that you would in this case) to give all of your opponents protection from your creatures with Absolute Law.
Additionally, Transguild Courier and Sphinx of the Guildpact both get boosts that apply to color even with no changes to the current rules. The point isn't that "this card is x color" because we can already break that in commander. The reason they're banned is because of the rule that the mana symbol appears on the card. This is the same reason that Quenchable Fire can't be run in a mono-red deck despite nothing about the card being blue.
On the point of Gyruda, Doom of Depths I will say you're not entirely wrong here, but let's not forget that Wizards has been pushing color pies and power levels a LOT lately. So to that end I would defend the card pointing to limited blue reanimation effects like Back from the Brink or Body Double. Blue has limited ability to copy or create tokens of creatures in graveyards, so the fact that this latest one is extremely limited feels like it's pushing blue, but not entirely out of context. You can only reanimate something milled with its ETB effect and only if it has an even CMC. It's possible to entirely whif on this and not get anything to reanimate, unlike similar black effects that are more or less guaranteed to bring you back something from the graveyard.
May 30, 2020 2:56 p.m.
LarryAction says... #18
Yeah, no shit DemonDragonJ, I'm saying it shouldn't matter. What the flying fuck did I say that made you think I didn't understand what makes a card a certain color?
"Cards in a deck should match their commander's color because Scourge of the Nobilis will give the same bonuses to either Hearthfire Hobgoblin or Iroas's Champion"
You sound like a complete wanker.
May 31, 2020 3:08 a.m.
SteelSentry says... #19
CastleSiege brings up the main point I take issue with; some hybrid cards have an ability that is almost non-existent in one of the colors. Snakeform for example, has an effect that is historically not a effect (there are only two green cards that strip a creature of abilities, and they are both auras; otherwise it has been strictly or ). Another example that is less relevant for Commander, but Jegantha, the Wellspring would never be printed as a mono card.
May 31, 2020 5:05 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #20
LarryAction, there is no need to have such a hostile tone, and I do not appreciate you speaking to me in that manner.
May 31, 2020 8:41 a.m.
Wow! That was Professor Farnsworth levels of surliness out of deep left field up there.
May 31, 2020 12:23 p.m.
SteelSentry except that red DOES have mana dorks, just not as many as green does. They either cost a lot more like Sisters of the Flame or have restrictions where you can use the mana like Smokebraider or Chandra's Embercat and since Jegantha restricts how you can use the mana, it does follow red's version of mana dorks.
June 2, 2020 5:11 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #23
Jegantha, the Wellspring has WUBRG in the oracle text and can only be played in 5C decks no matter the hybrid rules though
Gidgetimer says... #2
Lightning Helix isn't hybrid...
May 28, 2020 11:26 p.m.