What are some reliable wincons in mono blue?
Posted on Nov. 17, 2019, 4:20 a.m. by TypicalTimmy
First and foremost, I need to lay out some groundwork for the deck I would like to build;
- Commander: Teferi, Temporal Archmage
- Theme: Superfriends (Approximately 8x - 10x Planeswalkers)
- Support: 16 cards listed on Gatherer that have Proliferate that work in mono-blue
- Support: The Chain Veil
So the shell of the deck would be about 1/4th - 1/3rd Superfriends, between Planeswalkers and Proliferate cards.
But what else can a deck like this do?
- Excluded: Laboratory Maniac - I am not looking to self-mill to 0 and then draw. If LM is responded to with removal or being countered, I just cost myself the game. I don't find it a reliable enough strategy as the entire win condition hinges on that one single card. Too much risk is associated with it, so I don't want to use it.
So I assume you already have infinite activations/mana covered. So how about some storm shenanigans with buyback. Capsize and Brain Freeze seem fun. Also, for more of a 2 card set up Jace, Architect of Thought and Deepglow Skate paired with an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon should be enough to snag a game. Not sure how fair or degenerate you want to be.
November 17, 2019 4:34 a.m.
Assuming infinite mana you can Blue Sun's Zenith all your opponents to death
November 17, 2019 8:52 a.m.
Im going to go ahead and not assume that you have anything quite yet and go through the common inf mana lines as well as infinite The Chain Veil . Sorry if these are redundant, but I feel like I shouldn't assume.
With inf mana, anything that has forced draw x or mill x wins the game.
With inf mana Deadeye Navigator combos, you can add in Deceiver Exarch to any of them and tap down your opponents at upkeep or better yet Riftwing Cloudskate / Venser, Shaper Savant to bounce all of their permanents.
Hopefully at least something here helps!
November 17, 2019 10:02 a.m.
I’m a rather big fan of Urza, Lord High Artificer as a win condition, since he both turns your non-rock Artifacts into coloured mana rocks, and serves as an outlet for infinite mana. He makes for a relatively easy Lab Man win that mitigates your concerns with that line. You can exile your entire library, including your counterspells, cast lab man with counterspells to protect it, then fire off a draw one (still with protection) for the win.
November 17, 2019 11:15 a.m. Edited.
Just a note on Laboratory Maniac , you should already have your library drawn to 2 or less cards by the time you try to cast him. This means that in an optimal build you will have Force of Will , Pact of Negation , Swan Song , Mana Drain , Flusterstorm , and Delay at the very least in your hand. You should be able to force through Labman and have the cantrips to draw from an empty library in response to any responses, especially since you have infinite mana by this point. If you don't want to run Labman that is your choice to make, but as a win condition he is not unreliable or risky. I'll go ahead and assume that Jace, Wielder of Mysteries is also excluded as it is the same wincon as Labman.
Since the deck makes infinite mana as its primary function, Walking Ballista is an effective wincon.
November 17, 2019 11:21 a.m.
To add two suggestions I missed in my first post:
Since you’ll have infinite or near-infinite Planeswalker activations, you can uptick Jace, the Mind Sculptor and repeatedly +2 then -12 to mill your opponents.
Personally, I am not a fan of infinite mana outlets that don’t win me the game that turn, but I know you like tokens, so I figured I’d put forth Retrofitter Foundry as an infinite mana sink.
November 17, 2019 11:26 a.m.
November 17, 2019 11:52 a.m.
I would just like to point out (with regards to a few of the above posts) that infinite mana is not a win condition and technically neither is Capsize , especially if your commander is a planeswalker.
The whole point of the capsize line is that you can clear the board at will, meaning that you can slowly but surely beat your opponents to death with your commander as guaranteed damage (since you only need 63 commander dmage to win). This isn't applicable if your don't have a commander that can't turn sideways. Same thing goes for stopping your opponents from playing spells.
This is also the same with infinite mana - you need to actually have lines to sink the mana into otherwise infinite mana means nothing.
If you're wanting to play a PW deck with The Chain Veil , as was mentioned, Jace, the Mind Sculptor is a good win condition since you can just ult him repeatedly. You also have your classic Swan Song loops with Timetwister / Narset's Reversal to build your bird army. This one is a good combo as all of hte cards are applicable outside of the loop (though it's raher expensive to purchase).
But yeah, if you're adding infinite mana, make sure you actully have something you can do with it that ends the game.
November 17, 2019 2:49 p.m.
November 17, 2019 10:05 p.m.
RNR_Gaming: So assuming you've generated infinite coloured mana, you have a combo that requires 1 dedicated combo piece and one ok-ish removal piece. At that point, why not just ditch the Capsize completely and run any other 1 slot combo piece like Blue Sun's Zenith or Walking Ballista which will give you just as much or more value outside of combo than Brain Freeze will?
November 17, 2019 11:13 p.m.
sigh he was asking for "suggestions" on win conditions. There are tons of options available. Never said the suggestion was the most optimal or best. Thought some may enjoy a suggestion that's not just a copy and paste is sigi's deck.
November 18, 2019 1:25 a.m.
November 18, 2019 4:13 a.m.
Passive aggressiveness aside, I'm not just looking at the sigi list and quoting straight from that. I don't mind the idea of looking at differnet win conditions and I'm not saying that every deck that is built has to be a cEDH list. But there's a sliding scale. Hell, why not go for infinite 1/1 saprolings in a mono blue deck using Druidic Satchel with Tezzeret the Seeker and a Scroll Rack ?
Specifically on your combo, I was just making a point about how even though you're leveraging a non-combo piece of the deck as part of your combo (which is good deck building), your combo piece (which you don't need Capsize for - the Teferi loop involves recasting him from the command zone) doesn't do much for you at all outside of combo. So what happened was your first comment could have been (and in this case was) read as you could use Capsize or you could use BrainFreeze.
Yes, I am aware that you can use Brain Freeze to shut down tomp of deck tutors, but we both know that one would only use it as such in an absolute pinch. And we have moved well past having to use Goblin Cannon as a win condition - Blue Sun's Zenith draws you cards (and reshuffles which is nice) and Walking Ballista kills dorks - both of these cards do more outside of the combo and don't rely on mill (since at more pub-stompty ends of EDH eldrazi are a thing).
As a broader statement (and this was not specifically targetted at you, however I can appreciate that it may have come across as such), I see a lot of people making recommendations for deck win conditions which are not actually win contitions. Infinite mana does not equal the win and in this case, I was pointing out that Capsize + infinite mana with a PW commander does not equal a win either. Again, there are other posts on this thread that make reference to lots of infinite mana loops and even with Teferi by himself, that's STILL not a win. And since I have seen many posts/decks in the past either have a heap of infinite mana outlets but next to no loops, or heaps of infinite mana loops but only one outlet, I thought I would make a statement.
November 18, 2019 4:36 a.m.
My apologies I came off as rude. I was referring to a 3 card combination of casting Capsize over and over again, playing your commander then bouncing it again and again and recasting it, getting storm count up; then Brain Freeze ing. Getting infinite mana allows you to do just about anything.
November 18, 2019 1:54 p.m.
Or just memnarch when you have infinite mana you stole all permanents, usually people Will conceaded