What are some reliable wincons in mono blue?

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on Nov. 17, 2019, 4:20 a.m. by TypicalTimmy

First and foremost, I need to lay out some groundwork for the deck I would like to build;

So the shell of the deck would be about 1/4th - 1/3rd Superfriends, between Planeswalkers and Proliferate cards.

But what else can a deck like this do?

  • Excluded: Laboratory Maniac - I am not looking to self-mill to 0 and then draw. If LM is responded to with removal or being countered, I just cost myself the game. I don't find it a reliable enough strategy as the entire win condition hinges on that one single card. Too much risk is associated with it, so I don't want to use it.

RNR_Gaming says... #2

So I assume you already have infinite activations/mana covered. So how about some storm shenanigans with buyback. Capsize and Brain Freeze seem fun. Also, for more of a 2 card set up Jace, Architect of Thought and Deepglow Skate paired with an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon should be enough to snag a game. Not sure how fair or degenerate you want to be.

November 17, 2019 4:34 a.m.

Assuming infinite mana you can Blue Sun's Zenith all your opponents to death

November 17, 2019 8:52 a.m.

GhostChieftain says... #4

Im going to go ahead and not assume that you have anything quite yet and go through the common inf mana lines as well as infinite The Chain Veil . Sorry if these are redundant, but I feel like I shouldn't assume.

Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal + at least 3 mana worth of mana rocks= inf mana

Grim Monolith / Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth / Power Artifact = inf colorless mana

Deadeye Navigator + Peregrine Drake / Palinchron / Great Whale = inf land untaps

Grand Architect + Pili-Pala = inf mana

High Tide + Palinchron = inf mana

High Tide + Capsize + Palinchron / Great Whale =inf land untaps

Deadeye Navigator + Deceiver Exarch + Gilded Lotus =inf mana

The Chain Veil + Teferi, Temporal Archmage = infinite pw abilities

The Chain Veil + Teferi, Temporal Archmage + Tezzeret the Seeker = inf pw abilities w/o confusing new players

The Chain Veil + Everflowing Chalice w/at least 4 counters+ Tezzeret the Seeker = inf pw abilities

High Tide + Candelabra of Tawnos + The Chain Veil + Tezzeret the Seeker = $$$inf pw abilities and inf mana

With inf mana, anything that has forced draw x or mill x wins the game.

Another reliable win con is Karn, the Great Creator and Mycosynth Lattice as long as your opponents don't have a board presence.

With inf mana Deadeye Navigator combos, you can add in Deceiver Exarch to any of them and tap down your opponents at upkeep or better yet Riftwing Cloudskate / Venser, Shaper Savant to bounce all of their permanents.

You could also Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Knowledge Pool / Omen Machine to lock them out of casting spells

Hopefully at least something here helps!

November 17, 2019 10:02 a.m.

Caerwyn says... #5

One correction to GhostChieftain’s point - Grim Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth does not work, though Rings and Basalt Monolith does.

I’m a rather big fan of Urza, Lord High Artificer as a win condition, since he both turns your non-rock Artifacts into coloured mana rocks, and serves as an outlet for infinite mana. He makes for a relatively easy Lab Man win that mitigates your concerns with that line. You can exile your entire library, including your counterspells, cast lab man with counterspells to protect it, then fire off a draw one (still with protection) for the win.

November 17, 2019 11:15 a.m. Edited.

Gidgetimer says... #6

Just a note on Laboratory Maniac , you should already have your library drawn to 2 or less cards by the time you try to cast him. This means that in an optimal build you will have Force of Will , Pact of Negation , Swan Song , Mana Drain , Flusterstorm , and Delay at the very least in your hand. You should be able to force through Labman and have the cantrips to draw from an empty library in response to any responses, especially since you have infinite mana by this point. If you don't want to run Labman that is your choice to make, but as a win condition he is not unreliable or risky. I'll go ahead and assume that Jace, Wielder of Mysteries is also excluded as it is the same wincon as Labman.

Though not as consistent as it is in Arcum, Nevinyrral's Disk , Darksteel Forge , and Mycosynth Lattice can provide a hardlock.

Since the deck makes infinite mana as its primary function, Walking Ballista is an effective wincon.

November 17, 2019 11:21 a.m.

Caerwyn says... #7

To add two suggestions I missed in my first post:

Since you’ll have infinite or near-infinite Planeswalker activations, you can uptick Jace, the Mind Sculptor and repeatedly +2 then -12 to mill your opponents.

Personally, I am not a fan of infinite mana outlets that don’t win me the game that turn, but I know you like tokens, so I figured I’d put forth Retrofitter Foundry as an infinite mana sink.

November 17, 2019 11:26 a.m.

GhostChieftain says... #8

Caerwyn good catch

November 17, 2019 11:52 a.m.

enpc says... #9

I would just like to point out (with regards to a few of the above posts) that infinite mana is not a win condition and technically neither is Capsize , especially if your commander is a planeswalker.

The whole point of the capsize line is that you can clear the board at will, meaning that you can slowly but surely beat your opponents to death with your commander as guaranteed damage (since you only need 63 commander dmage to win). This isn't applicable if your don't have a commander that can't turn sideways. Same thing goes for stopping your opponents from playing spells.

This is also the same with infinite mana - you need to actually have lines to sink the mana into otherwise infinite mana means nothing.

If you're wanting to play a PW deck with The Chain Veil , as was mentioned, Jace, the Mind Sculptor is a good win condition since you can just ult him repeatedly. You also have your classic Swan Song loops with Timetwister / Narset's Reversal to build your bird army. This one is a good combo as all of hte cards are applicable outside of the loop (though it's raher expensive to purchase).

But yeah, if you're adding infinite mana, make sure you actully have something you can do with it that ends the game.

November 17, 2019 2:49 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #10

enpc you Capsize all permanents you don't control and continuously recast your commander to get your storm count up and mill everyone out with Brain Freeze .

November 17, 2019 10:05 p.m.

enpc says... #11

RNR_Gaming: So assuming you've generated infinite coloured mana, you have a combo that requires 1 dedicated combo piece and one ok-ish removal piece. At that point, why not just ditch the Capsize completely and run any other 1 slot combo piece like Blue Sun's Zenith or Walking Ballista which will give you just as much or more value outside of combo than Brain Freeze will?

November 17, 2019 11:13 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #12

sigh he was asking for "suggestions" on win conditions. There are tons of options available. Never said the suggestion was the most optimal or best. Thought some may enjoy a suggestion that's not just a copy and paste is sigi's deck.

November 18, 2019 1:25 a.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #13

Additionally, Capsize can establish a soft lock with Stasis . Also, Brain Freeze can double as a counter to any tutor that places a card on top.

November 18, 2019 4:13 a.m.

enpc says... #14

Passive aggressiveness aside, I'm not just looking at the sigi list and quoting straight from that. I don't mind the idea of looking at differnet win conditions and I'm not saying that every deck that is built has to be a cEDH list. But there's a sliding scale. Hell, why not go for infinite 1/1 saprolings in a mono blue deck using Druidic Satchel with Tezzeret the Seeker and a Scroll Rack ?

Specifically on your combo, I was just making a point about how even though you're leveraging a non-combo piece of the deck as part of your combo (which is good deck building), your combo piece (which you don't need Capsize for - the Teferi loop involves recasting him from the command zone) doesn't do much for you at all outside of combo. So what happened was your first comment could have been (and in this case was) read as you could use Capsize or you could use BrainFreeze.

Yes, I am aware that you can use Brain Freeze to shut down tomp of deck tutors, but we both know that one would only use it as such in an absolute pinch. And we have moved well past having to use Goblin Cannon as a win condition - Blue Sun's Zenith draws you cards (and reshuffles which is nice) and Walking Ballista kills dorks - both of these cards do more outside of the combo and don't rely on mill (since at more pub-stompty ends of EDH eldrazi are a thing).

As a broader statement (and this was not specifically targetted at you, however I can appreciate that it may have come across as such), I see a lot of people making recommendations for deck win conditions which are not actually win contitions. Infinite mana does not equal the win and in this case, I was pointing out that Capsize + infinite mana with a PW commander does not equal a win either. Again, there are other posts on this thread that make reference to lots of infinite mana loops and even with Teferi by himself, that's STILL not a win. And since I have seen many posts/decks in the past either have a heap of infinite mana outlets but next to no loops, or heaps of infinite mana loops but only one outlet, I thought I would make a statement.

November 18, 2019 4:36 a.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #15

My apologies I came off as rude. I was referring to a 3 card combination of casting Capsize over and over again, playing your commander then bouncing it again and again and recasting it, getting storm count up; then Brain Freeze ing. Getting infinite mana allows you to do just about anything.

November 18, 2019 1:54 p.m.

Charley007 says... #16

Or just memnarch when you have infinite mana you stole all permanents, usually people Will conceaded

November 21, 2019 3:41 a.m.

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