Weak EDH Archetypes?
Posted on Sept. 20, 2018, 5:55 p.m. by Odysseus_97
I watched the Command Zone podcast #230: Commander format wish list and really loved the ideas they came up with.
We have themes that are very popular in 60-card formats, most talked about burn, but not very viable in EDH. I love the idea of creating cards that could make such an archetype viable in commander.
I think i would like to come up with ideas for cards myself, but I find it hard finding themes. So i am asking the community, what is a theme you would to be viable in commander and in which colours, what aspects should a given card have, and if you have an idea you want to share, post it :) I thought of Boros/Jeskai Burn and Mardu Voltron as some ideas for preconstructed decks if it could ever happen.
Arvail: Anything specific? Voltron could go into aggro, maybe infect aswell although it is very unliked mechanic in EDH, maybe an aggresive underrepresented type could be used.
Control I did think of, maybe making some sort of balanced Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, and sort of the multiplayer thing.
September 20, 2018 7:04 p.m.
You can't make control good in EDH without creating some truly busted cards. There's just no way to overcome a 1v3 consistently. Even if you do succeed, what's to stop combo players from splashing control elements and improving their decks?
Voltron can be made ok with minor tweaks to rules. Commander damage to 15 would be good. Alternatively make voltron pieces that double up as interaction or keep up card advantage, etc.
September 20, 2018 7:13 p.m.
Arvail: I have made a sort of control EDH deck and it works pretty well by combining some Counterspells and stax pieces. It is not about shutting your opponent out, but stopping the key pieces. Have a look if you want.
I do agree that "Real control" is not a thing that can happen in EDH without some insane cards, but then tweeking the strategy to something control like, but still viable. I have seen a very good Aminatou control build with her +1 ability and Psychic Battle.
Voltron: Yes, having commander damage reduced would be amazing, the change in rule can just be put on the card :) 15 seems like a good amount. That could be an option, or maybe something that lets the equipments reequip, when it enters the battlefield without having to pay the equip cost again. Thank you for the suggestion, i have like 4-5 ideas of some Voltron commanders that solve their problems :)
September 20, 2018 7:32 p.m.
I think a major issue with commander is that aggro and many similar R strategies don't work as well when facing against larger life totals. Partially the problem with that is the fact that aggro decks can't really put in the Mana that other decks can, nor can they deal with larger life totals and games that aren't 1v1.
But, I think that trying to copy archetypes from modern or standard in edh is also generally gonna make a weaker deck. Certainly, you can use playstyles from modern or standard and combos from modern or standard, but certain powerhouses like Tarmogoyf or Goblin Guide just might not do as well in edh where a) multiples aren't allowed and b) opponents have both higher life totals.
September 20, 2018 7:45 p.m.
Sultai Lantern Control
One of the Tron decks
Mono red 8 Moon
Basically, all the most loved modern decks.
September 20, 2018 7:46 p.m.
dbpunk: Very true, the point of making the cards would be to make it more viable. Like a burn commander making Lightning Bolt target each opponent instead of a single one. (Wont let it copy when targeting creatures). Not essentially the entire standard/modern/legacy deck strategy, more like taking the theme of a given archetype and making it possible in commander (Adjusting cards to work in multiplayer). There are lots of people who loves burn, but it is very hard making it viable in a semi-powered meta.
You have some very good points, and no, Tarmogoyf and Goblin Guide will probably never see any real play in EDH as they are combat focused, but that is only good as it wont increase the price of the already expensive cards :)
It might be a way to ambitious project i have begun experimentning with, but i have some high hopes and like the creative aspect of it. Success or failure, either way i have fun :)
These themes are quite specific, looking for things more like: Burn, Control, Infect :)
September 20, 2018 8 p.m.
Not really an archetype but I would love to see more "redirects" and a "redirect matters" archetype - I find them to be more fair AND PRODUCTIVE than counterspells.
I would love to see some parallel punishment for targeted spells effects.
As far as pushing current unpopular archetypes... I really want them to keep pushing "gifting" strategies. They gave us an elf that draws when we buff opponent's creatures.... but not much support for it for eg. Maybe more durable vows or (infectious vows) - that can bounce from card to card.
September 21, 2018 3:44 p.m.
The thing about general themes though is that if you tweak them a bit, they can be useful in edh.
September 21, 2018 4:03 p.m.
That being said, I really wish they pushed the "hey, let's copy everything" archetype or the hug archetypes. Because those would be really cool to have in edh more.
Or if they start pushing chaos more. Because who doesn't love a little chaos.
September 21, 2018 4:09 p.m.
I mean, aggro is pretty good, think Edric, Spymaster of Trest turns, a powerful Tier 1.5 cEDH aggro deck, and control is great considering it is nearly half the cEDH meta. Stax-based control lists from Teferi to Blood Pod are everywhere.
Draw-go control or Permission control is more rare, but Azami and JVP can pull it off, acting as decent filter/draw engines, they are more tier 1.5 permission-combo lists than pure permission, yet they are actually draw-go decks until they win, and they work in a competitive meta.
Lantern Control seems really hard. I imagine it can work, given they printed 10 more artifacts that tap to mill a player 1 and all cost and draw you a card on etb, but that's super unrealistic.
8 Moon may not be a real deck, but that's effectively a deck that drops a one or two card lock like Blood Moon + Chalice of the Void and rides the win with a few wincons. Really that's just like any mono-red stax deck in EDH, like a good Feldon or Kiki-Jiki list. Seems good enough at Tier 2 to be competitive.
I think Tron is a lost cause. Similarly is with cloudpost, or any of those lists.