Useful formulas for deck building
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 2, 2020, 11:17 a.m. by RambIe
Outside of the basic templates
Ive noticed lots of people have there own
formulas, habits, templets that they use when building decks
Im not trying to start a debate over what formulas are best.
Im just curious about all the varieties
Example: in most of my edh decks i take the average cmc x 15 to decide how much mana to put in the deck.
(Mana being lands,dorks,rocks,fetch, etc)
What are some of your favorites?
Ramble personally I tend to start from one of two points. By picking a theme/interaction I want to work with (tribals, flickr, mill etc.), or I build up from a specific card or two (it doesn't have to be the commander).
More often than not I start with my flavor of deck (the types of interactions I want) then pick a commander that would suit the strategy.
When it comes time to start making cuts from a list I will make a tallied up excel sheet (if it's a big list) and make headings for each type of mechanic (removal, draw, etc.) and mark how many cards I have that cover those mechanics, some cards can check multiple boxes. Then from there I can fine tune the deck while making sure that my bases are covered.
September 2, 2020 4:09 p.m.
Synergy is important
I do similar but i use custom categories
September 2, 2020 4:14 p.m.
I follow the same basic rule that Massacar pointed out. If I want to see it reliably during a game use 8 slots for same or similar ability.
I also have a general rule of thirds for a deck. 1/3 is theme/win condition, 1/3 is interaction/support and 1/3 is mana base. This gives me a rough card count of available slots so when i am juggling it tells me where to cut. I will strain that rule a bit if making tribal, or very theme-oriented. But it usually lands a pretty balanced spread of cards for me.
September 2, 2020 4:38 p.m.
MagicWizard1993 says... #8
I use the formula 10 cards for card draw, 10 for ramp. The rest of the cards all surround the commanders strategy. Also 10 removal cards.
September 2, 2020 7:59 p.m.
griffstick says... #9
Theres 2 ways I go about building a deck. The first way is easy. Build it on tappedout using an idea so basically make a rough draft. Then I go looking through my decks and binders to see what I have. I try to put it together with what I got. Then fill in the rest with cards I'd like to experiment with. The other way is exactly the same, except I dont fill the rest of the deck with test cards. I just purchase single and finish the deck.
September 2, 2020 9:59 p.m. Edited.
griffstick
Im suprised your post is the first mentioning of tapped out.
I do love this site for experimenting and most of all tuning.
I used to lay all my cards out across a table with dice to track my templates, balance, and curves.
Now i just upload a deck and tune it on my phone while sipping my morning coffee.
P.s. i dont get yelled at for taking over the table anymore:)
September 2, 2020 11:43 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #11
The amount of land I use varies between 30 and 40, but I generally try to have at least 10 mana rocks.
September 3, 2020 6:58 a.m.
ShutUpMokuba says... #12
Things to take into account before starting: 1) desired power level. A cEDH deck contains far less lands than a casual deck. It also chances the number of mana rocks,tutors and need for redundancy. 2) your meta. An heavy creature based deck meta requires more removal. Otherwise you need more counterspell.
Then i usually make a list of all the cards divided by type that could fit in. I start by picking the ones that are obligatory for the deck to work properly. Then there is the spot for the cards that in my opinion would make a better pick than the others. Here i usually take time because cards that looked better may end up resulting less efficient on a second thought/playtesting a bit.
The initial card list is taken by other tappedout lists, edhrec and youtube deck techs.
Talking about numbers: IMO the ideal number of cards for each of the essential category for an optimized deck (around 70-80% optimization here on tappedout; in other words a strong non competitive deck) are at least:
Interaction (removal/counterspell): 8; Ramp: 8; Draw: 5; Graveyard hate: 2; Lands: 35-37;
The rest is for synergistic cards. I usually prefer one big theme rather than two (a better strategy works better in a game that two. You have less variability but the game usually doesn't last long enough to develop both).
September 3, 2020 10:48 a.m.
Interesting topic Ramble, I've been meaning to respond for the last day or two but have just been super busy, but let me provide a mana base formula I stumbled on a few years back after noticing a pattern in my deck building - might be something to try out and see if you find similar results, as I find it's very rare to get either flooded or mana screwed using this formula. I'll provide a couple of examples as well - more for the casual-competitive decks, as my cEDH decks don't always follow the formula as rigorously.
The basic formula for mana-producing lands is: Starting base of 30 mana-producing lands, plus additional lands equal to the CMC of your commander, plus additional lands equal to the average CMC of the deck, minus designated values for each mana rock, mana dork, mana spell and draw spell equal to or less than the CMC of the commander.
The first example is for my Zada, Hedron Grinder deck: Yada...Yada...Zada. In this case, the formula is 30 + 4CMC (commander) + 2.28 average CMC, or 36.28. I then subtract designated values for the following cards in the deck: -1.0 for Mana Crypt, -0.5 for Sol Ring (or any other 0 or 1 CMC rock), -0.25 for Thought Vessel (or any other 2 or 3 CMC rock), Battle Hymn, Brightstone Ritual, Traitorous Greed and Dockside Extortionist, and finally -0.10 for each of the draw spells in the deck: Accelerate, Boiling Blood, Crimson Wisps, Expedite, Fists of Flame, Stun and Renegade Tactics for a total reduction of 3.45 and a final value of 32.83 (rounded up to 33).
The second example includes a more aggressive reduction in mana-producing lands based on my Elf tribal Marwyn, the Nurturer deck: Elves Tap and Slap (Marwyn Tribal Counters). The formula here is 30 + 3CMC (commander) + 2.64 average CMC, or 35.64. I then subtract for the following cards: -0.50 for Sol Ring, -0.25 for Elvish Archdruid, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Gyre Sage, Incubation Druid, Llanowar Elves, Llanowar Visionary, Priest of Titania, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Viridian Joiner, Wood Elves, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Nissa's Pilgrimage, Rhonas's Monument, Gaea's Touch and Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip. Finally, I subtract -0.10 for Elvish Visionary, Llanowar Visionary and Inspiring Call for a total reduction of 5.30 and a final value of 30.34 (rounded down to 30).
Although the reduction values could be considered a little arbitrary in certain deck concepts, this formula has held pretty accurate since I started keeping track of it. I hope you find this useful in the future, and happy brewing.
September 4, 2020 10:53 a.m.
Azdranax thank you for taking the time to type all that out.
Your method is very similar to one i was taught in 60 card format that many pro's used
One thing i always found fascinating is how much quality card sleeves and shuffling habits can also effect land demand
September 4, 2020 11:29 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #15
9 card draw
9 ramp
4 board wipes (including up to two that get rid of all nonland permanents)
4 spot removal
2 neo-tuck auras (if possible)
12/x Utility Lands, where X is the number of colors of the deck
24/x Basic Lands, where X is the number of colors of the deck
36(x-1)/x Colorfixing Lands, where X is the number of colors of the deck
37-Y Lands Total, where Y is the number of Commanders in your command zone
September 6, 2020 11:07 a.m.
SimicEDHbro says... #16
I typically start with my commander, put 36 lands and the artifact base in first. Pull up like 20 tabs of other decks built around that commander and idea I have, throw in like 200 cards I think are cool and would work well, cut down to a 100. After that I use custom categories to label everything (ramp, draw, removal) and start fine tuning, making sure the engines and mechanics are balanced out. Then it's just like 2-3 days of deck testing, more fine tuning, deck testing, more fine tuning until I get it just right. I think the only math I follow is that I always start at 36 lands and never drop below 34.
Massacar says... #2
I know an oft-cited rule I see for EDH is the rule of 8. If you want a mechanic or interaction to be present in the deck, then include at least 8 cards that do the thing you want.
September 2, 2020 12:33 p.m.