Tribal deck Help
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Aug. 17, 2011, 2:36 p.m. by Nethermind
I've got a decent infi-bounce combo going on using scarecrows, cauldren-of-souls and juniper-ranger. so far i've got Mana Echoes and Door of Destinies but i'm looking for some more cards that do cool stuff when creatures enter the battlefield. preferably tribal. any great cards i missed?
mozerdozer says... #3
Melira, Sylvok Outcast has the same effect as the Ranger and has a considerably lower mana cost. Adaptive Automaton works well.
August 17, 2011 2:53 p.m.
Nethermind says... #4
does a creature with persist have a counter put on it? because my understanding is you 'control' creatures on the battlefield, and the persist text is that it enters the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter, meaning the counter would have been put on the creature when you didn't control it and is thus unaffected by Melira. or i've just misunderstood the rules entirely. :S
August 17, 2011 3:01 p.m.
Melira prevents the -1/-1 counters from going on persist creatures, allowing for infinite persisting.
I built an EDH deck at one point that abused her and Juniper Order Ranger.
Warstorm Surge (or Pandemonium ) and Confusion in the Ranks are all good choices. Sac your creature, it persists back, trade it for another, and shoot it with it's own damage, starting the cycle over again.
August 17, 2011 3:23 p.m.
Nethermind says... #7
i believe this is the relevant ruling:
121.5. If a spell or ability refers to a counter being "placed" on a permanent, it means putting a counter on that permanent while it's on the battlefield, or that permanent entering the battlefield with a counter on it.
however, there is no referance to counter placement in the persist rules, and therefore you get the alternative: "or that permanent entering the battlefield with a counter on it". surely this bypasses the 'counters cannot be placed' from Melira and just enters with the counter on it
August 17, 2011 3:51 p.m.
702.77a Persist is a triggered ability. "Persist" means "When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it."
Persist creatures return with a counter on them, which meets the definition of a placed counter (per the rule you quoted). Melira prevents that placing, so they return clear of all counters.
Just to clear up a possible point of confusion - Persist creatures change zones to the graveyard, then trigger, then change zones again to the battlefield. They're considered to be entering when they come back, with the counter.
August 17, 2011 4:17 p.m.
SeditiousCanary says... #10
Also worth mentioning, things which give your creatures +1/+1 (like Coat of Arms or Adaptive Automaton do not remove the -1/-1 counter when a creature with persist returns to the battlefield.
121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.
This does not apply to static or triggered abilities which give creatures +X/+Y.
August 28, 2011 3:37 p.m.
ExiledSenpai says... #11
I have 9 EDH decks, 4 of them are tribal. I have a Green elf deck, a red/black goblin deck, a 5 color sliver deck, and a black zombie deck. Please refer to these for ideas.
Nethermind says... #2
that is, Cauldron of Souls and Juniper Order Ranger , sorry about the crappy spelling
August 17, 2011 2:38 p.m.