Top Commanders of EDH tier list
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 9, 2015, 8:28 a.m. by Indigoindigo
A few days ago I stumbled upon the Facebook-page Top Commanders of EDH (multiplayer) and their tier-list with tier S, A and B.
Link
The requirement of a Tier S-deck is that it wins in 3 turns or less. Both Riku of Two Reflections (mid-combo) and Roon of the Hidden Realm (lockdown) and other non-black decks are in the list. I've never seen any lists that seem that fast, and don't understand how it would be done without black tutor-power.
Any ideas how this could be accomplished?
Valentine35 says... #3
That list is bullshit, i have consistently won with my Nekusar, the Mindrazer deck, i call bullshit on that. And my Prime Speaker Zegana deck is awesome too, both win very often and are also fun to play, and that lists states that both are obsolete, which is crazy IMO. I'm also wondering how do you pull of a turn 1 win with Waste Not?
April 9, 2015 9:24 a.m.
Two words: fast mana. However, that is a VERY loose definition of a S-tier deck and I would not go by it.
I would put Damia in S-tier, regardless of whether she can win on turn 3, she just screams value. You can combo with Narset on t3, but I do not consider her S-tier.
April 9, 2015 9:24 a.m.
Ehhh... I guess you could combo off with Roon very fast. The problem is that he incentivizes playing ETBs, which tend to be overcosted effects because you get a body. Think Rampant Growth vs Farhaven Elf, for example. Nekusar, although fun as all hell, gives your opponents resources and often hinges on the ability to cast multiple spells. He's actually really easy to hate out.
Not a big fan of EDH tier lists.
April 9, 2015 9:33 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #6
Well, these are people who try to find the exact most efficient lists, and any kind of weakness or perceived weakness can make a card "obsolete". It doesn't mean that it isn't viable, it just means that they feel they aren't as viable as the other options. Also this is assuming you are using the $3000+ lists that go around.
April 9, 2015 9:35 a.m.
I dunno. I'm a bigger believer in color identity making or breaking a commander over their individual abilities. Think of how much worse off Derevi would be if it were URG, for example. That's not to say commanders don't count for anything, ofc they do, but your pool determines your 99.
April 9, 2015 9:53 a.m.
StealthyGunnar says... #8
Maybe I'm missing something, but how can any of these decks win consistently on turn 3?
April 9, 2015 12:29 p.m.
HeroInMyOwnMind says... #9
I feel like the list doesn't really touch on all demographics. They don't even mention voltron decks, which can end games on turn 3 no problem. Is this based on 1v1 or multiplayer?
April 9, 2015 12:31 p.m.
HeroInMyOwnMind: It's based on multiplayer, hence Voltron not existing as it requires at least two more combat steps to win.
April 9, 2015 12:32 p.m.
Indigoindigo says... #12
Valentine35: "That list is bullshit, i have consistently won with my Nekusar, the Mindrazer deck, i call bullshit on that. And my Prime Speaker Zegana deck is awesome too, both win very often and are also fun to play, and that lists states that both are obsolete, which is crazy IMO"
You consistently win in your meta or against other competitive decks online? I also win a lot with my main EDH-deck, but it doesn't mean that it's a top tier deck. Would you say that your decks often compete with and beat decks that win T3-4? 'Cause that's probably how they compare decks.
I still don't understand how to make a Lockdown Roon of the Hidden Realm deck. By their definition. "Lockdown decks tend to use: Null Rod, Stasis, Static Orb, Winter Orb, Nether Void Trinisphere, etc. (Lets opponents keep their lands)". But what else? I asked for a list, but they wanted $40 for it.
They have some deck techs here if anyone's interrested :)
April 9, 2015 5:01 p.m.
Indigoindigo: I'm just guessing now, but it would make sense for the Roon deck to run creatures that untap lands / permanents on ETB to circumvent the lockdown effects (together with generally value ETB creatures).
That's at least the only use I can see for Roon.
April 9, 2015 5:33 p.m.
Poptartz95 says... #14
Avacyn, Angel of Hope tier B clearly these guys have never seen mass land destruction, and Urza's Incubator what. This list sucks, Avacyn, Angel of Hope does more then mana denial, more like board denial, and Kaalia of the Vast should be right there with Alesha, Who Smiles at Death. I personally would not push Prossh in Tier S he is a strong general but wow not that strong, and Marath, Will of the Wild TIER B??????????????? WHAT? ._. I really dont like this list, I feel it is completely and utterly wrong. He doesnt even have Gisela, Blade of Goldnight she can literally 1 shot the board with the right deck. I think this list needs to be remade, and consider more options, then the "standards" and "basics" of each commander listed. I am blown away the following cards arent even listed, Aurelia, the Warleader, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Dragonlord Silumgar, Mayael the Anima, and hundreds more.
April 9, 2015 7:38 p.m.
SimicPower says... #15
I would not doubt this tier list, assuming it has been heavily tested.
Poptartz95: Avacyn, Angel of Hope's biggest hindrance is color identity. Being mono white, it means you have no access to tutor and very limited draw, limiting consistency. You also lose access to most ramp, limiting speed. It doesn't meet any tier A or S requirements because of this. These people definitely have seen mass land destruction before, as in tier B they listed Avacyn as "mana denial". All mana denial is basically board denial, that's the reason mana denial works.
Glad to see Kruphix made it tier A, though my version is very toned town compared competitive control.
April 10, 2015 2:47 a.m.
Any deck that wins through combat is automatically not in the tier list due to needing 3 combat steps at the least in order to win.
Locking down the table and then winning through is an entirely different thing however.
Most of the decks you mention Poptartz95 are in the WEAKEST colors of EDH (white and red) while also winning through combat damage.
Dragonlord Silumgar making the list has to be a joke.. Maybe as a meta call against a ton of Teferi decks.
April 10, 2015 3:09 a.m.
Poptartz95 says... #17
SimicPower Stoneforge Mystic, Enlightened Tutor, Steelshaper's Gift, Idyllic Tutor, I dont have a problem with consistency with mono-white I only play it everyday. I agree mono-white draw sucks, but consistency no, any deck can be consistent if you make it consistent. For the most part itleast. I dont mean mass land destruction as "Hey I dropped Armageddon
I win" I mean in multiplayer with 4+ people even if you drop one mass land wipe you dont beat everyone in 1 wipe. Consistent mass land destruction is what I meant, as in Armageddon, Catastrophe, Ravages of War, Worldslayer. Again though in a 1v1 you shouldnt need all that to win, mainly just multiplayer. Kruphix is ramp king I sorta felt he shouldve made tier S personally I have seen lots of scary Kruphix decks.
April 10, 2015 11:18 a.m.
DarkMonger says... #18
Poptartz95 Avacyn also costs 8 mana and by the time you cast her you've likely lost to one of the actual S tier decks if you're playing in a competitive setting.
April 10, 2015 2:50 p.m.
DarkMonger says... #20
Poptartz95 no offense but I think you're missing why the S-tier decks are S-tier. The best way to win a multiplayer game is to combo off because you need to kill more than one person. Im shocked Avacyn is even on the tier list, to be honest.
April 10, 2015 2:54 p.m.
DarkMonger says... #21
By the time Avacyn can hit the board and cast a board wipe of any sort, you should already have lost the game.
April 10, 2015 2:55 p.m.
SimicPower says... #22
DarkMonger: Versus a tier S deck. But versus tier B decks, Avacyn has a better chance hence being on the list.
April 10, 2015 2:58 p.m.
Poptartz95 says... #23
DarkMonger you have no commander decks posted, I am shocked your bothering commenting no offense, I run a Avacyn, Angel of Hope deck, and obviously you dont. I know how to play EDH it is all I play, I have won countless games with my deck, because theres rarely lands on the field. Except for mine obviously. I see the point, I am saying I dont agree with it, 100% aggro voltron decks I can see why they arent posted in a strict multiplayer only setting, but if you make a Avacyn, Angel of Hope deck where aggro is strictly your win con, then fix that right now. So no I am not missing the point I am simply disagreeing with the FB post.
April 10, 2015 3:05 p.m.
gamerboy12k says... #24
Here's my question...where's Phelddagrif? He can be very easy to win with quickly, or hug everyone to death. Where would he be? :3
April 10, 2015 3:26 p.m.
You really ought to look at this.
"you have no commander decks posted, I am shocked your bothering commenting no offense, I run a Avacyn, Angel of Hope deck, and obviously you dont. I know how to play EDH it is all I play"
I wasn't going to say anything, but this is a personal attack. That's just petty. Until there is mutual respect, there can be no discourse.
April 10, 2015 3:40 p.m.
gamerboy12k says... #27
breh, check out mah hipo deck hug the fun (tweeking)...its too mlg fo yo life.
TheDeciever, please...just don't argue (same to you poptartz), there is just no point to this arguement unless you want to waste time yelling obscenities at a lifeless screen while flipping hundreds at Strippers asking for more hippo.
That last sentence is basically the logicality of the argument XD.
I hope you 2 have a great life :3
April 10, 2015 3:47 p.m.
Megalomania says... #29
My Oona deck can (although very rarely) win at turn 3. It is fast, wins consistently and has a pretty high resiliency but considering how many awesome decks are out there, I don't think it is even close to being Tier S.
Who gets to decide/label what tier a particular deck belongs to?
As for Avacyn, I doubt it can be used against a competitive playgroup. It is just too slow. Even Kaalia, as much as I love Kaalia decks, hardly wins in my playgroup.
April 10, 2015 9:11 p.m.
Poptartz95: Just because you have spent a lot of money on your deck (and it is awesome) doesn't make Avacyn Tier S.
This is an extremely competetive list, and as DarkMonger pointed out, I'm pretty surprised Avacyn is even on that list.
Don't get me wrong, Avacyn is incredibly powerful. But the Tier S list is for the commanders that are straight out broken.
You don't see me throwing a fit because Niv-Mizzet is in the obselete section... Although I think he deserves Tier B at least :(
April 10, 2015 10:41 p.m.
Poptartz95 says... #31
Sleazebag I just think he didnt really consider many options, as in he made some really powerful decks with all the commanders in this list, and since they were his thats what he based em off of. Half of the tier b, and under commanders he has chosen some are ridiculously wrong is all. Kaalia of the Vast should be right there with Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, and Marath, Will of the Wild just Tier A idgaf -_- ill pokemon card fight this guy on that one. Erebos, God of the Dead another general who can make some scary decks, someone on the site has a godly enchantment deck with him I cant remember there name, I just think whoever made this fb post should look at ALOT more decklist, such as ones on this site, I would love the opportunity to play against like all the decks on this site, your budget deck being one cause its p sick.
April 10, 2015 11:07 p.m.
DarkMonger says... #32
Poptartz95: "Erebos, God of the Dead another general who can make some scary decks, someone on the site has a godly enchantment deck with him" ....and with that one I'll consider this argument over and Poptartz to be entirely missing the concept of actual competitive commander decks. LOL.
April 11, 2015 7:37 p.m.
DarkMonger says... #33
But seriously, the guy that made that list made some strange placements on the tier list on purpose. He can't be trusted at all because he WANTS people to be curious as to how, say, a Riku list could be the best of the best because he tries to sell these "lists" for $40/piece. Which is ridiculous considering there is no reason to take his word for any of these placements. That being said, Avacyn still isn't good and he definitely didn't lie about that one haha.
April 11, 2015 7:39 p.m.
Poptartz95 says... #34
DarkMonger your still mad about this? damn, but if you had half a brain youd understand I am saying I feel like the guy who made that list made a decklist for each commander and just went off how good his deck was, and didnt consider any deck such as ones posted on this site considering theres god knows how many of each of those commanders listed, but clearly your to blind to see that.
April 11, 2015 7:47 p.m.
Poptartz95 says... #35
DarkMonger Avacyn, Angel of Hope still better then you ever will be ;)
April 11, 2015 7:52 p.m.
Poptartz95: If you think Avacyn is competitive, then you've never played competitively. Against a group of tier 1 generals, your Avacyn will almost never hit the board. You could maybe, with a perfect 7 cards, and assuming nobody slows you down, cast her on turn 3 or 4, but you won't do that consistently, and even after that, assuming she wasn't countered, your opponents all have a full turn with you tapped out to get rid of her, combo off and win, hold up countermagic for your MLD, etc.
I'm sure your deck is neat and you've won a lot of games against your friends' casual EDH decks, but that's completely irrelevant when we're talking about competitive play.
April 18, 2015 7:08 p.m.
SimicPower says... #37
xFortune: Maybe that's a little harsh. Avacyn can be built very competitively, and has earned a Tier B spot. It can't hold its own versus Tier S decks, but it can still be a very competitive general.
April 19, 2015 12:26 a.m.
SimicPower I wouldn't say Tier B is competitive unless you're only comparing it to other Tier B decks.
April 19, 2015 6:20 p.m.
Yeah, I checked out the list. There a ton of things wrong with it. Arcanis the Omnipotent S tier? And Animar, Soul of Elements is only A-tier? Whoever built the list is either heavily biased, or simply not very knowledgeable on what constitutes a good deck / commander. Don't waste your time trying to figure out the placement of some of the commanders-- most of them are incorrect.
July 22, 2015 12:06 a.m.
Indigoindigo says... #40
Have you seen their decklists? If you dig around the facebook-page you can find lists for Derevi, Daretti, Brago, Teferi and 5COmniscience. They look quite good.
lemmingllama says... #2
They mention that S tier decks only need one or more of those requirements. So Riku of Two Reflections and Roon of the Hidden Realm aren't that fast, but they are very consistent and resilient.
April 9, 2015 9:12 a.m.