The 'Ultimate' Idea
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on May 8, 2020, 8:39 p.m. by JANKYARD_DOG
So now that we have 10 Ultimatums I was thinking of making a deck out of them (not that I need another project XD). The first commander to come to mind was Ramos, Dragon Engine
, though if you have another idea I'd love to hear it.
One concern I have is being as there are 10 Ultimatums all at 7cmc (10% of the deck) it could clog up the hand if we dont create another use for them like 'CMC matters' cards. Ramos does creates 10 mana for 5 counters, however each Ultimatum requires one color at 3 so I think some mana filters should be added as well.
Also of those Ultimatums Clarion Ultimatum is virtually useless in this format unless you're running Persistant Petitioners|Petitioners, Rats, or Apostles so we'll count it out unless someone comes up with a fantastic idea. A few are about playing cards for free and a few require that you have permanants in your deck/grave/field. I was initially thinking of a 'Non creature spell' theme but I'm not sure it would fit. Too much layering as Suns_Champion would say. If you'd like to weigh in here SC that'd be amazing.
So, how would you all do it? What spicy tech would you immediately toss in here to make it shine?. Let me know in the comments, and any other ideas you may have.
- 8/10 Ultimatums included
- Commander changed to Jodah, Archmage Eternal
- Exploring 'Noncreature Spell' theme
- Not many useful 'Noncreature Spell' related cards' Now exploring an Enchantress subtheme.
- Exploring 'High CMC Matters' sub theme
- all suggestions are being considered at this time. Will inform of any changes.
ZendikariWol says... #3
Worth noting that if you're looking for a cheap mana base and a lot of land-based ramp, running a lot of basics makes Clarion Ultimatum "tutor up a copy of every basic land."
May 8, 2020 10:17 p.m.
Make it weirder and add a "Cycles only theme" to it. You could add in all the dual and tri color charms and all the dual color gods from theros block.
May 9, 2020 1:47 a.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #5
SirFowler free casting was something I was considering, and Adept and Galvanoth seem real nice, hoping there are more like it. Cascade unfortunately only hits lower spells same with Rashmi, Eternities Crafter. Living Lore is an interesting way to reuse an Ultimatum or one we pitch. 4cmc for a 7/7, slap some haste on it and away we go seeing as we dont have to connect with a player.
ZendikariWol It could work seeing as we dont need colors Ramos and if we add filters like Prophetic Prism other spells shouldn't be too problematic.
dbpunk Initially I was thinking of going all in on the "non creature spell" theme adding the charms to the list, however upon further inspection a few Ultimatums require us to have permanants on the field/deck/grave (Cruel, Eerie, Genesis, Titanic and Ruinous in it's own way). Some charms may still make the cut though. Perhaps there are some permanant type multicolor cycles we could include?.
May 9, 2020 6:38 a.m.
You could do something spicy with something with Possibility Storm + Swarm Intelligence. You cast one ultimatum, it gets copied with the Swarm Intelligence, then random into another ultimatum which also gets copied. Depending on the ultimatum, that's a pretty good deal. Also, Sunbird's Invocation allows X or less, so you could find another ultimatum. Boom, 2 for 1 ultimatum possibilities. And if you have all three out together, oh boy will things ramp up quickly. Also, Maelstrom Wanderer is the only card with cascade that can random into ultimatums.
May 9, 2020 9:54 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #7
Looking at Ramos, it seems you have a lot of hoops to jump through as you'd definitely have to add some mana filtering. Why not play Jodah, Archmage Eternal instead? With Cascading Cataracts, Composite Golem and Jegantha, the Wellspring, pumping out these ultimatims seems easy.
A card you should try is Seasons Past. While you can only recycle one Ultimatum per cast, the amount of recursion it grants you is obscene. Also, definitely add in Narset's Reversal for multiple uses out of each Ultimatum.
Dark Petition is great for the black includi g ultimatums and synergizes perfectly with Seasons Past.
May 9, 2020 10:41 a.m.
Suns_Champion says... #8
I think a better commander than Ramos would be Jodah, Archmage Eternal. It's way easier to get WUBRG than to get any of the 7 ultimatum colors. I think the 10 ultimatums would fit nicely in the normal Jodah shell. Plus, Ramos would still be a good card to add.
The only issues I see are the two ultimatums that have any real "ask," Titanic and Clarion. Titanic is fine because you just add some expensive token makers and call it good. Clarion doesn't even seem worth it unless you have basic lands or Spy Kit or something like that. Or maybe you could Treasure Nabber people's artifacts and go get your own when you cast Clarion...
May 9, 2020 10:41 a.m.
Deadpoo111 says... #10
I would Immediately suggest running Jodah, Archmage Eternal instead of Ramos. Also, putting Fist of Suns and Chromatic Lantern is gonna make your life a helluva lot easier.
May 9, 2020 12:31 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #11
Honestly I completely forgot that Jodah existed... facepalm... but great idea!. XD
Suns_Champion would you think adding Narset's Reversal would warrant the inclusion of Isochron Scepter? Which would then include other 2cmc options... Dramatic Reversal perhaps?.
Nabber does sound fun with Clarion. There's a card that allows you to steal land cards too is there not? I wanna say its Black but not sure.
May 9, 2020 2:31 p.m.
Suns_Champion says... #13
If I were to build this deck, I wouldn't include Titanic and Clarion and instead focus on the 8 that don't require me to have creatures.
Using Nabber, herald, or rats or apostles is cute, but it means you are playing cards just to make two cards in your deck not-dead cards. I feel like it would be better to just dump them and free up all those card slots for things to further the strategy. Accommodating for Titanic and Clarion dilutes the deck. It hurts the flavor, and maybe you'd rather do that than have a cohesive deck, and that's fine.
I don't think one card justifies the inclusion of another card, so I give Isochron Scepter a "maybe." If you have 10+ targets for it at the end of the build, sure, throw it in. Dramatic Reversal is a solid, if boring, way to win.
May 9, 2020 2:55 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #14
You make a valid point on the 2 Ultimatums, it also helps to soften the curve a smidge. An unfortunate but necessary loss I suppose. Alright! So now we can focus more on a 'Noncreature spell' subtheme and our permanants can be mostly Artifact/Enchantment based.
Will work on it a bit over time and see what happens. Don't let that stop anyone from suggesting stuff though. Still thinking about 'High CMC matters' cards if they'll fit/matter.
May 9, 2020 4:02 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #15
I second running Jodah, although Golos, Tireless Pilgrim might also be a strong option - once you get to seven of ANY color, he can start searching for ultimatums off the top of your deck, and he can find you a missing/underrepresented color when he ETBs.
May 9, 2020 4:20 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #16
Another idea: Approach of the Second Sun
It's not an actual ultimatum card, but it literally gives your opponent an ultimatum: Finish me in the next few turns OR ELSE I win.
Most of the ultimatums, while definitely putting you in a spot where you should be able to win, don't actually win you the game. Approach helps with that. This also makes Sunbird's Invocation even more powerful.
May 10, 2020 12:32 a.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #17
So there's not alot in the way of 'Noncreature Spell' specific synergy aside from token creation, and a bit of draw or looting but not enough to make a huge difference. That being said I've been considering an enchantress subtheme using things like Fertile Ground for ramp instead/addition to rocks, along with all the goodies that provide card advantage w/enchantments. Think it's a good idea or... too much? I know its difficult without a list but it's just a giant mess still.
May 20, 2020 8:53 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #18
Here's what I've managed so far. Pretty fun in testing but probably could be a bit more streamlined. Read/ignore the notes in the descriptions... let me know what you think.
Jodah's GrEight Ultimatums
Commander / EDH*
1 VIEW | IN 1 FOLDER
SirFowler says... #2
Omnispell Adept helps cast stuff cheaper, depending on the card. And if you have a way to untap it like Pemmin's Aura, then you can do it multiple times which is pretty sweet. Galvanoth maybe to cast them for free? However you might need some manipulation tech to make it work properly. I tried to make Living Lore a thing, but it's a pretty risky play. And the last idea would be something like Epic Experiment for an extremely risky move.
These are just a few ideas that can help cheat out such mana restrictive cards. I know there are other cards out there, but these are just the ones I sort of thought about for the idea you want to achieve.
May 8, 2020 9:48 p.m.