The ethics of building decks for money
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 23, 2014, 3:41 p.m. by Deckologist
A group of players at my local shop attend a workshop I do to better them as EDH players and Magic players in general. One of my "students" asked if he could just pay me to make a deck for him. This isnt the first time someone has asked me to do this but its always felt a little weird/wrong. What are your thoughts on the matter?
Deckologist says... #3
Thats ultimately what I told him. I can guide him through and show him some stuff but ultimately edh in a weird way is about expression. You can tell a lot about people with the decks they build. Although the money did really seem nice
September 23, 2014 3:56 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #5
There is something special about the work put into an EDH deck. Theory-crafting a deck and investing in it's parts definitely tells a lot about a person.
Good call on suggesting they put their own project together. You can teach them theory around number of land, percentages dedicated to ramp and removal, perspectives on one time use cards etc etc, but they need to know what's important and what isn't before they can play it and have fun with it.
September 23, 2014 5:10 p.m.
Just to provide some polarizing perspective. Personally, I think the process of deck building gets way too romanticized. A person is willing to pay you for a service. It's not like you're not writing his/her grandmother's eulogy because they are too lazy to, you're putting 99 cards together in order for someone to play a fun game with them. Hell as much as everyone wants to think their deck is their own special snowflake, 90% of every EDH thread is about how X,Y,Z card goes perfectly with such and such commander.
That's not to rain on anyone's day that enjoys deck building and wishes there was more variety and personalization in decks, but in the end it's either money in your pocket or they go out and give it to WotC/store by buying a preconstructed deck.
September 23, 2014 7:39 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
I don't think there's anything inherently unethical about selling someone an EDH deck. Would the other player learn more from building his or her own deck? Probably. But you can still mentor him or her through the process.
September 23, 2014 7:40 p.m.
HeroInMyOwnMind says... #8
I don't see the problem. If you can help them make competitive decks that they enjoy playing, everyone wins. The playgroup becomes stronger, the games become more balanced and more enjoyable, and no one is hurt in the process.
I used to create characters in old video games for my friends because I was just better at it. We always had a better time because of it.
Some people like to build decks. Some people like to play the game. Some people like to do both. I am not sure what about the situation is leaving you conflicted, but I can't see any logical reason why it would be a problem.
September 24, 2014 3:08 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #9
I'm trying to see a difference between then netdecking an EDH deck, and then going to SCG to buy all the cards, vs just getting you to build it and selling it to them. I really can't.
Personally, I think that either method misses the major point of Magic: The Gathering (but then again, I'm a Johnny; I almost prefer building to playing), but if that's what they're into, I don't see anything wrong with it. Unless your 'personalised deckbuilding' is nearly identical for everybody to whom you provide the service. But that's something else entirely.
September 24, 2014 7:05 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #10
The only time I've ever let someone pay me to make a deck for them, I was literally just using their cards and helping them to see interactions and combos with what he already had. It wasn't like I was using my own cards or anything. Most of the time, I'll help someone make a deck for free, unless there's something genuinely pressing going on, like I have bills that need to get paid or I get something in my house turned off.
September 24, 2014 10:38 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #11
I want to clarify that I don't disagree with the last few posts, despite my feeling that if I paid someone to build a deck for me, I'd feel cheap. I also couldn't pilot Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition with nearly the skill that Epochalyptik could with the hours of time and effort shaping it to be his own.
That being said; Life is economics. Money is always useful, but that doesn't mean he can't have input if he wants it. If he just wants something viable to play with, that's fine too. You obviously have attained his respect enough that he would ask you to build it for him, so I'd personally be honored. Just don't get into a habit of building decks for people for free, that becomes time consuming and opens up a potential for resentment.
It begs the question though; since research has shown that people who get paid for something tend to be less motivated to do it once they stopped getting paid for it, how would this affect your own deckbuilding?
September 24, 2014 10:55 a.m.
HeroInMyOwnMind says... #12
I think one of the major differences between building a deck for someone you know and someone deciding to use a net-deck is the the underlining intentions of the person navigating the deck.
If you are net-decking, you are essentially going online to find a deck that is already proven to be reliable, and not putting any effort into improving, changing, or adapting the deck. You are playing what everyone is plays because you are under the assumption that is going to win for you. You don't care what it does, how it works, or why it works - you only care that it gets you a win.
If you have someone build you a deck, I would imaging there is at least a little input coming from you about the style of deck, the goal of the deck, and the navigation of the deck. While you aren't the one min-maxing, you at least are the one deciding what you want your deck to do.
I will admit, I am assuming when you build a deck for someone, you understand them well enough to build a deck that caters to their strengths. If you are building it for strangers, that definitely changes my opinions. That concept does come off as something akin to net-decking. If you are building it for someone you know, then I am also assuming that you are doing it in a manner that also fits their play style.
When I help people build a deck, I make a point to include only things I feel they would like to play, or cards that specifically enhance their methodology. I don't throw multiple card combos in decks for people that would rather run big beaters, especially if they are too inexperienced to understand the interactions, or too lazy to plan for long game strategies.
If your method of helping people with deck construction is similar, then there is a huge difference between the two concepts. The other benefit of peer-construction (that is a good a name as any, right?) is that you also know the general tempo of the play group, which net-decks never take into account.
I will always be a "from the ground, up" kind of guy, but I realize that is not for everyone. So if my particular strengths and interests help the people around me excel, I don't see the problem.
September 24, 2014 1:16 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #13
Hey HeroInMyOwnMind,
You make some good points. I think a few of them are based on me not being really experienced with net-decking.
I had assumed that if you were net-decking, you were still choosing a net deck (say, a top-8 or whatever, or even a tier 2 deck that looks like fun) based on your play style and what you enjoy - there's certainly enough decks out there that anybody should be able to find a decklist that appeals to them!
If I was wrong about that, then yeah, having a peer build you a deck is indeed quite different.
September 24, 2014 1:28 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #15
Personally, I would have done this. I've built decks for other people before, including helping with the Bant Edric deck that won a few SCG opens and a GP. (I got 75 bucks for the list) Everybody has their own talents when it comes to magic; I'm better at building and tweaking decks than I am at playing, hence the 250 decks on my account here.
EDH, more than any other format, is about the individual. While the game is often played with several people, involving politics and maneuvering, everybody gets something very different out of the format. My friends and I regularly play each other's decks, rolling to play random decks, or even tossing them all in a bag and picking at random. So, playing somebody else's deck isn't as big of a deal as many people think. Sure, intimately customizing and creating your own deck is going to give you the best results, but playing a deck that somebody else built isn't the end of the world. I'm sure that person would proceed to change and customize the decklist, making it more theirs over time. Building for somebody else is something that has existed for a very long time, and won't be going away any time soon. (Sligh was not built by its original player, for example.)
September 24, 2014 2:02 p.m.
Well I have built decks and then sold them but never actually been commissioned to build a deck but one thing to remember once you build (or sell) some one a deck it is then theirs and they can then do whatever they want to with it (I had trouble with this concept at first and got quite miffed at a friend of mine for taking the B/W "shadow" deck I sold him with consistent T3 kill and butchered it to the point that he never won a game with it again. But hay it's his problem now right?) anyway I don't have a problem building decks (or critiquing decks for that matter) for instants at FMN last Friday I was helping not only my 7yo son with his deck but two 13yo boys who had only been playing for 4 months rework their decks and yes it was a competition and yes I could potentially hurt my chances of winning but I'd rather every one have a fighting chance and have fun than just winning cause their deck was not built properly or not understand how it works, but I've only been playing for almost 16 years and I play for fun not profit (although building/selling decks are profitable)
September 28, 2014 4:37 p.m.
Well that's certainly a weird predicament imo... if they don't really care what kind of deck they are playing and apparently they really don't since they don't even bother constructing their own deck... the question is, why don't they buy a Commander precon deck then?
mathimus55 says... #2
I mean, it's kinda the same as netdecking. Sure you can get a list and put it together, but how well do you know how to pilot it? I'd encourage him to make it himself but you just provide feedback and suggestions. If he looks up to you like that anyways chances are he'll know you mean well w/ your harsher critiques, but seeing their decks evolve will help them maintain an understanding of how the deck works instead of being handed a completely different deck than when they last saw it. Plus it'll help with their own deckbuilding skills instead of you just putting something together. We started doing something like that too around my LGS too where some older(and more personable) players help out the younger guys and it's gone well.
Mainly just make sure they understand that it's THEIR deck, so they should see how it evolves and why each card is better than the last etc. Ethics aside(which I don't care how they/you go about it), it's just encouraging more growth for the players
September 23, 2014 3:49 p.m.