The Boros problem
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Jan. 25, 2018, 3:49 p.m. by HangDoll
Of all the combinations of colors you could play in commander this one has been dubbed by many as the absolute worst combination you could go with. Even being considered worse than mono white or mono red. And that is a feat no other color pairing can claim. Every color seems to compliment the other in some way, except for White and Red. This isn't to say that they can't have good combinations, because I feel they could. But the strategies that they shine with can either be done better in other color combinations, done solo or are considered degenerate(land destruction). You want a token swarm strategy? Well, mono white, mono red goblins, or selesnya will all do far better at this strategy. Mono white has an advantage of just letting you stick guys on the ground and swing, Mono Red snowballs faster without the restrictions of white commanders that are helpful in their own way but don't fuel the strategy and Selesnya gives you access to green, arguably the best or second best color in commander.
Now I'm not saying you can't be successful with a Boros deck, you absolutely can be. The issue that we see with this combination is that it pushes an agressive strategy but provides little to incentivize the risk in running boros. Its strange to. Red and White are two of the best artifact colors too. White being reliant on equipment and red being all around artifacts, second only to blue. So you'd think that Wizards would start putting out really powerful equipment themed Boros commanders. But no, they give that to selesnya, again stealing away a strategy that should rightfully be boros. Its something I'd like to see for the color pairing moving forward. Turning sideways just isn't enough. Having that extra synergy with equipment could really push it. it would be great to see some equipment matter's general that was like some sort of Hero of Bladehold +Trash for Treasure (but only for equipment) hybrid commander would be great! (Would be even better if they made red dwarves that cared about equipment)
Excuse my complaining here. Its just something that's been on my mind for a while.
Generally agree about usually finding better mono-examples (Sram = more versatile than Jor Kadeen). I think better EDH vehicles combined with Boros synergy with vehicles would be a strong mechanic to explore. I'm thinking sortof a Germanesque blitzkrieg + industry fuels the engines of war... That idea seems to resonate with Boros. Also more conqueror's flail/dromoka effects would be nice for R/W. I think either creatures that tap to add additional bonuses to vehicles or vehicles that become cumulatively more awesome with MORE creatures crewing would be neat. I keep thinking of how a more numerous & better trained crew should, in theory, man the cannons on some of these ships and that should be reflected on a number-based crewing system... Some sort of crazy token pumping but not your usual swing wide synergy.
January 25, 2018 4:25 p.m.
Akiri is ok, but again kindof falls in line with Boros being kindof limited to +1/0 combat strategy. It seems like other growing counter decks like Selesnya bolster end up having more diversity and still are stronger.. Although one Boros strength is certainly the additional combats. Boros are very Spartan, I think they should be able to create more fuel from dmg/destruction. More LIMITED Neheb, the Eternal effects. Maybe when certain vehicles are crewed dmg produces mana generation. I could picture a Boros empire scorching/draining swamps dry for MTG's fantasy version of coal for their vehicles...They would be the type to turn over rotten logs & scorch the bugs with a magnifying glass. and WHY do we not have a mobile castle yet? Maybe Boros could get sortof a Godo, Bandit Warlord with a vehicle focus - and he has a castle on tank-treads instead of a maul. I also think the same thing about airships... MTG needs the return of legendary airships, but updated to the vehicle format. Flavorwise Boros could dominate synergy with these, also stronger dwarf tribal.
January 25, 2018 5:12 p.m.
I feel obligated to point out that Boros is fundamentally inferior at the kind of resource generation (ramping, draw) that's good in a 40 life, multiplayer format and is mostly tilted in the direction of dealing lethal combat damage to each opponent in order to win. As long as these problems are present, Boros will continue to be shit.
January 25, 2018 5:28 p.m.
imoutogetyou says... #7
Never really thought about it that way. Agree that the equipment stuff was stolen by selesnya I mean imagine Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith in Boros. Super cool! Different stream of thought: what are the Boros tribes? What tribal identity do they have. Blue is Merfolk, but so is azorius, and dimir, also sonic now. Golgari have trolls and elves. Each pair has a few tribes that spring to mind... except Boros. Boros has humans, but what colors dont. There are and this is on edhrec for order of popularity angels, humans, soldiers, warriors, giants, and dwarves. Not tribes that have had a lot of support recently.
January 25, 2018 5:35 p.m.
TheDevicer,
I'd say compare her to Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith which gives card advantage and a bonus ability. Akiri, Line-Slinger is also one I wouldn't count as a boros commander since it'll always be better with a partner, thus not a card in the running since I am talking about a pure boros strategy. Another issue with it is it can't bring you back if you get board wiped, and it does best on a strong board as well as almost being a win more card when its good and a bad wall when its bad. Nazahn? Go get Skullclamp, Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Feast and Famine, Argentum Armor, Lightning Greaves, Batterskull. And as it was mentioned above Godo, Bandit Warlord has some of the same options. Personally, I don't want to see another search commander. But something that lets you put an equipment from your hand for free or brings one back from your graveyard attached to your commander would be extremely nice. This gives it the ability to recover from a sweep which boros can have a tough time with. And its extremely frustrating that Selesnya, which already has similarities to boros just does boros better.
January 25, 2018 5:40 p.m.
imoutogetyou says... #9
That being said Sunforger is the best colour equipement ever. Boros Charm is the best of the guild charms, and combine both of these with instant speed equipment search of Stonehewer Giant things can get fun.
January 25, 2018 5:53 p.m.
Yep, agreed. That is why I think Boros should have a new synergy... Just like white became equipment primary when artifacts diversified into equipment (then the Selescats ganked that). Blue/red kept more generic artifact synnerty. Again I think it would be extremely flavorful to start developing that unique synergy for Boros + dwarves could be the tribal support you speak of (with Sram as part of 99). Vehicles leave a field full of menacing permanents following boardwipes. Also, some of the effects you are talking about have already been done almost EXACTLY by Nahiri. Maybe vehicles that gain the keywords of creatures equipping it (since Boros keywords are a strength that should not be ditched with a new synergy). I think there are some pretty neat synergy unexplored yet with vehicles & the flavor could fit boros well. And although Land Destruction is thought to be "unsavory" to some, it is a legit strategy IMO. If blue can just Cyclonic Rift all your permanents away then why should white/red not be strongly stacked with ways to punish opponents for not fielding permanents? Land destruct. & damage-to-mana effects should also be explored as core Boros concepts.
January 25, 2018 5:59 p.m.
Suns_Champion says... #11
is my favorite guild by far. Every standard and commander set I hope for good boros stuff. Every time I'm disappointed :(
It's a shame really. The stuff that Boros is good at(direct damage, lifegain, aggressive play, high-attack low-defense creatures, damage redirection, tokens, efficient one and two-drop creatures, combat tricks, etc) don't translate well to EDH(singleton format, 40 life, multiplayer, boardwipes, big creatures, politics, etc).
So we Boros players really need one of two things. Amazing EDH cards that support Boros strategies(Eldrazi Monument but , a repeatable Deflecting Palm, something like that), or R/W flavored card draw or tutor or ramp spells to help us stack up with the other colors and color pairs(Neheb, the Eternal but an instant that instead draws you cards or something).
I can dream right? Otherwise I guess I'll just keep flinging people with Brion Stoutarm.
EDIT: I like the ideas of Boros Vehicles and land destruction.
January 25, 2018 6:26 p.m. Edited.
imoutogetyou says... #12
Same always looking for new boros stuff. The redirect instants like Comeuppance, Deflecting Palm, and Wild Ricochet are really strong in edh though.
January 25, 2018 6:41 p.m.
Good points, limited damage-to-card draw may be nice, more neheblike type of identity. I feel like Boros' largest issue is being somewhat lacking in an identity diversity compared to most the other colors... Yes they are almost exclusively combat oriented. This is kindof an issue where other dual combos can often choose to play agro-combat if they wish to they also have so much more access to non-combat game winners. More cards like: Grenzo, Havoc Raiser to cause unusual mass combat consequences especially with all that Boros double strike.
January 25, 2018 7:11 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #14
I have to say I generally agree that boros is a pain to build. You can do some good stuff with it but options are extremely limited. Until recently my Queen Marchesa was always really hurting on mana ramp, I realize that is Mardu and not Boros but the only difference is the addition of black which adds some great card draw. But damn mana ramp was difficult. Ixalan has really helped my Divine Decree and I think it will really help boros players too.
January 25, 2018 7:25 p.m.
DrukenReaps,
If I was going to make a suggestion for your deck I'd suggest more card draw. but I'm a player at heart so I'm all about that card draw. But your commander doesn't give you much in terms of card advantage, sure she does give you an extra card each turn but I find that to be knda slow. Skullclamp would be good as you can clamp the token she makes Black also gives you some really nice options. And since if you are not the monarch having a use for your tokens if you can't get through seems like a good idea.
That aside, Boros is a color that is just sad. I want there to be something good to do with it. I mean, I believe there are dwarves on dominaria, so maybe we'll get some awesome Boros Dwarf that cares about artifacts??? Maybe...?
January 25, 2018 8 p.m.
imoutogetyou says... #16
my personal boros baby is Ragnarok (Giant Tribal: Brion Stoutarm) so hoping to flesh out boros staples and some killer giants wouldnt go amiss...
January 26, 2018 8:24 a.m.
Pedrodamus says... #17
Boros is a terrible color combo to make a competitive deck with, but check out my Super Smash Boros Melee deck , it does surprisingly well in multi player. You 100% need a Sunforger toobox in any Boros deck, actually, make that 200%. Without it, you're dead in the water. You need card advantage, ramp, haste...it takes a while to fine tune a Boros deck to compete, but it's fun as hell when you get it there.
January 26, 2018 7:40 p.m.
which is why the Boros identity needs to be refined further. There shouldn't be 1 card you particularly need to be successful with a color combo (for that matter Boros identity could involve attaching more instants to artifacts-or vehicles). Although I prefer they look somewhere besides equipment for that identity since its already been done heavily in monoW & Selesnya & voltron isn't great for a true identity... I've made a fairly competitive Lazav voltron. You can slap voltron onto a bunch of colors.
January 26, 2018 11:03 p.m.
The problem with Boros is as said, the lack of gaining a resource advantage, or resources at all save equipment which usually doesn't do a darned thing immediately hitting the board.
With Red's likely expansion of abilities slowly coming (ala Feldon-like recursion and freeze-tapping lands), I have hope, but I don't think it will come for a few years yet.
What I'd love to see is a commander that has utility in Boros beyond combat. While Boros is swing and steel, it is other stuff now too, like creation, especially with artifacts and possibly elementals. It could also use more redirection spells. If you want that on a general, all you have right now is Razia (love the card, buy maybe some lower cost monk/cleric would be better?)
January 27, 2018 1:04 a.m.
RedUndead40 says... #20
http://www.mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/firesongandsunspeaker.html
http://www.mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/tianashipscaretaker.html
Sweet new options, and Tiana covers the equipment issue.
March 12, 2018 1:19 p.m.
Boros EDH is getting a good little kick after the new Dominaria. Sunforger will pair nicely with Firesong and Sunspeaker and Jaya Ballard... Plus, I know she's Mardu, but Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is a bad ass and utilizes Boros.
Pieguy396 says... #2
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer is a pretty good artifact/equipment commander. I think one of Boros' biggest weaknesses is that it's a rather aggressive combination, and casual EDH inherently punishes aggressive strategies.
January 25, 2018 4:07 p.m.