Red artifact help
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Oct. 10, 2019, 8:07 p.m. by Wuzibo
I've run daretti as a commander since he came out. He was the first commander i ever used. I played it back then, and back then the problem i want to talk about was more a problem, but I feel in 5 years it hasn't been fixed the best.
The problem is that mono blue artifacts just seems infinitely better than mono red if you look at just artifact stuff. When you add blue control power on top of that it doesn't even seem close to me. I've played muzzio decks, so i have some experience with blue artifacts too. Just the artifact specific stuff feels way stronger. Compare Feldon of the Third Path or Goblin Welder to Arcum Dagsson or Master Transmuter . Red artifacts revolve more around the graveyard, which inherently opens up more counterplay in the form of graveyard hate, a weakness blue also does not share.
The 2nd part of this is mostly just blue complaining and looking at red's relative weaknesses. Red has no enchantment removal apart from Chaos Warp , which is red's only real way to deal with indestructible stuff as well. Red also doesn't have as many ways as blue to deal with indestructible things like Cyclonic Rift , polymorph's jest or Frogify . Then look at blue's card draw ability. Unconditional card draw, or Anticipate type effects. Red draw spells almost all require discard or are creature targeting with a 'draw a card' effect tacked on. And unlike black spells, you have to discard before you draw. Or you can get stuff like Avaricious Dragon or Dragon Mage , but they cause you to discard too. yes that helps, but blue card draw usually lets you stack your hand up as big as you want it provided you can grow your hand size, which isn't usually too hard in commander. Then just counterspells. I know that's beat to death, but it's just another +1 for blue.
I feel like mono blue artifacts are still just better than mono red. Mono red can work, but it's not as good. Blue is still too good at too much.
At no point did anyone ever not believe that Blue was better than Red. Not only in Artifact themes, but in EDH in general. Red is widely considered the weakest single color to play in EDH in terms of available cards. Artifacts is probably its best solution to keep up, but Blue still does it far better. Just play Artifacts and call it a day.
October 11, 2019 8:26 a.m.
Perhaps you’re failing to play to red’s strengths. Sure blue has more answers and draw power, but red has recursion and... I don’t know how to phrase it better than attrition. But think cards like Blood Moon and Choke alongside Winter Orb and Ensnaring Bridge . Throw in Mana Web , Defense Grid , etc, and what you end up playing is a deck that really brutally locks opponents out of the game. From there, smack someone with a Blightsteel Colossus , or just let everyone deck out and hang on to a Platinum Angel , and it’s an easy game. The trick with red is locking people out, and red has WAY more options for hard-locking people than blue does.
October 11, 2019 12:01 p.m.
White is by far the weakest color in edh. Red has gotten a ton of stuff in the last 3ish years that have really pushed it up. Red has a lot of bad generals but daretti is incredible. He churns through your deck so fast. Combine that with Chandra ToD a few more walkers and The Chain Veil and your set
October 11, 2019 5:55 p.m.
Idk it's just general blue hate i guess. I stopped playing 3 years ago because blue was so prevalent it seemed unfun unless you played blue.
I already run The Chain Veil and Crawlspace . Ensnaring bridge is my next add. I usually lockout by blowing up lands with Darksteel Forge and Mycosynth Lattice and then Obliterate or Nevinyrral's Disk or Oblivion Stone . I can Mind Slaver lock people too. Winter Orb works great for that too, especially with Unwinding Clock . I also use Platinum Angel and a pay life source to make my life total less than 0. Then i use Soul Conduit . Moltensteel Dragon is a go to here, because then I can make him huge and take out 2 people in a turn.
Do you see the problem with everything i listed there besides Obliterate and Moltensteel Dragon ? It's all available to blue. Blue is dominant in legacy, vintage, modern, usually standard, and edh. Also, the graveyard hate i am referring to is not only Bojuka Bog I was thinking specifically starting the game when an opponent has Leyline of the Void out, or when one casts a similar enchantment. Red can't deal with enchantments, and that is why it remains the weakest color. White has exile effects for all permanent types(i think, maybe not lands). Red doesn't have enchantment removal.
Can someone point me to one single red enchantment removal spell besides Chaos Warp , which can hugely benefit the opponent? Not a combo like Mycosynth Lattice + Vandalblast but a red "destroy/exile all enchantments"(that isn't banned, - Worldfire - or a 'Destroy/Exile target enchantment". That's why I'm struggling with mono red vs other decks.
@shadow63 I don't run any other walkers. Do you think I should?
October 13, 2019 6:32 p.m.
Oblivion Stone
,
Nevinyrral's Disk
, and
Perilous Vault
handle enchantments for starters...
look man, I totally get the blue hate thing, but red artifacts can be good too. The problem with artifacts in general is that they’re not that good unless you’re willing to spend a small fortune on them.
I’m talking Crucible of Worlds + Wasteland
locking people with
Mana Web
+
Winter Orb
,
Ensnaring Bridge
, cheating in a
Darksteel Forge
. Blue has better artifact support sure, so it can be cheaper to build a decent artifact deck in blue. But red can still get nasty, you just have to drop a lot more money into the deck for it to feel good.
MindAblaze says... #2
Is this just a post complaining about playing red instead of blue in edh?
What specific problems are you encountering? You speak to enchantment hate and draw. Anything else?
As far as dealing with enchantments... you’re playing an artifact deck, find some artifacts that can do that job. They’re not going to be as efficient as green answers, or even blue bounce spells like Boomerang , but guess what? That’s the whole point of the color wheel.
Daretti is a draw engine that feeds his Goblin Welder ability. As far as draw goes that’s pretty damn good. The problem it sounds like you’re having is overextending into a Bojuka Bog or some other nonsense graveyard hate. Again, welcome to Magic where all the threats have answers...you wouldn’t want having access to a second hand (graveyard) to really be invulnerable would you?
Play blue if you want to, there are good reasons to do that. But playing red has its own allure, and venting about not liking your deck never got anybody anywhere. Asking questions like “how did you guys solve this problem?” might actually...
October 10, 2019 8:50 p.m.