Primal Surge in EDH
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on May 5, 2015, 7:18 p.m. by NoPantsParade
So I'm working on a Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund dragon tribal EDH deck, and I'm trying to decide if I want to build around Primal Surge. I have two options for this deck: (1) I can include all permanents except Primal Surge or (2) I can just build a deck with nonpermanents.
With Primal Surge, I can flip over my entire deck and win from there since the deck is built around it. However, the deck can easily win on its own without resolving Primal Surge. But then I give up removal, wraths, tutors, and whatnot, barring some exceptions like Oblivion Stone. Also, it's always fun to just flip over your deck and just do shenanigans.
By including nonpermanents, I have access to Demonic Tutor, ramp like Skyshroud Claim, and those things. And I think the deck might be a bit more resilient to a fair amount of decks with some nonpermanent utility stuffed in there.
So, what's your guys' opinion on Primal Surge? Is it worth running it with the rest of the deck permanents or forgoing the Surge and including nonpermanents?
If it helps, I normally play in a rather casual group with some powerful decks every now and then.
I have seen Primal Surge work in a Roon of the Hidden Realm deck before, but that hit Laboratory Maniac and a bunch of draw card like Elvish Visionary.
The biggest problem you'll run into is that you can't run any cantrip effects unless they're 'may'. To be honest, with a Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund deck, you're probably just better off running Tooth and Nail and Dragonstorm to get a bunch of stuff you want. I mean you can build around Primal Surge but then you have to run stuff like Rune-Scarred Demon and Sidisi, Undead Vizier for tutor. And with instants/sorceries, oyu have no real way of telling if it'll whiff. And thats a lot of mana to get two lands and a Birds of Paradise or something.
May 5, 2015 7:24 p.m.
Oh yeah, side note - if you're building a Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund deck, please make sure you put Homeward Path into it.
May 5, 2015 7:26 p.m.
If you're gonna run a Primal Surge deck, you don't want too many non permanents. Since you're running Jund, you also wanna have some permanent haste enablers, like Hammer of Purphoros and definitely Akroma's Memorial.
You are right that you will be giving up tutors and most removal. However, there are some very nice enchantments in those colors that can make up for that.
My personal opinion would be to run like, 10-15 non-permanents that are removal and tutors. Sure, the Primal Surge chain ends if you hit one, but I think it's worth it. You won't always get to resolve Primal Surge anyway, so best to have other great cards in the deck. Just don't run too many.
May 5, 2015 7:27 p.m.
I personally think one of the best EDH decks for Primal Surge is Maelstrom Wanderer. That deck is all about value anyway and Surge fits that gameplan perfectly.
May 5, 2015 7:28 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #7
I built a Primal Surge Karrthus EDH deck a while ago. It's rough and needs to be updated, but you can take a look if you want and use it for guidelines or whatever.
May 5, 2015 7:36 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #8
Well, with the Primal Surge route, I'd be going all in with it. It'd be the only non-permanent since I want to be able to have my entire deck on the field for giggles. I don't necessarily need it to win, but it's nice to have an "I win" button in case the game is dragon on for too long.
kyuuri117, I've got a Survival of the Fittest package going with Genesis and Anger. All I need to do is find room for a Squee, Goblin Nabob.
My biggest concern is just the ramp, which can be fixed with mana rocks.
When playing the deck online, I find that card draw is the biggest issue aside from removal. I've got Liliana of the Veil for creature removal, but I think there's better out there. What are some good permanents other than Phyrexian Arena for card draw? I'm not a fan of Necropotence since the deck is already saturated with 
/
for dragons that don't contain 
.
May 5, 2015 8:28 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #9
The deckbuilding restrictions associated with Primal Surge are far too high to justify playing that card, as a win condition or not. You can't even tutor for the Primal Surge without the use of an expensive creature like Rune-Scarred Demon or some other woefully inefficient method if you want maximum consistency. And even if you do successfully resolve Primal Surge (If you do.. The chances of you not resolving that card under ideal conditions are also too high), it's no more efficient than any of the other combos; I could name half a dozen good ones off the top of my head for Prossh, Skyraider of Kher.
May 5, 2015 8:37 p.m.
KillDatBUG says... #10
Disregard the last part about Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: I thought you were building that instead of Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund.
May 5, 2015 8:40 p.m.
KillDatBUG: if you're about to pay 10 for Primal Surge, 7 mana doesn't seem that bad.
As for ramp, try to use things like Sakura-Tribe Elder, Wood Elves, Farhaven Elf and especially Burnished Hart for ramp as they will also thin the deck (and lands are less of a target for removal than artifacts are). For draw card,
make use of things like Prototype Portal, Soul of the Harvest, Loreseeker's Stone, even Tower of Fortunes. Basically, all of the good artifact draw card. Do NOT use creatures that cantrip when they enter though, otherwise you WILL kill yourself when you Primal Surge.
May 5, 2015 8:45 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #12
KillDatBUG: That's the one thing I've noticed when playing the deck is that I have to wait for everyone else to tap out before I play Primal Surge. And I don't normally draw it. And when I do, I'm either almost dead or about to win with dragon beatdown. I think I'm going to throw the Primal Surge variant together in paper, and then adjust accordingly it if it doesn't work out the way I hoped. It doesn't require that many changes anyhow, so I can always go back and forth between the two variants, depending on the mood.
May 5, 2015 8:45 p.m.
rob_shifflett says... #13
I have done some testing with THE Surge in my homebrew Jarad, Lich Lord of Fun.
It being the only non-perm urges(I am sure there is a better word for this) you to over-extend. Too many makes it inefficient. The magic number for me was between 4 and 6, not including THE Surge.
Tested 20 times @ 4 non-perms for an average of 29 permanents with the two extremes being 12 & 64.
Tested 20 times @ 5 non-perms for an average of 22 permanents with the two extremes being 9 & 39.
Tested 20 times @ 6 non-perms for an average of 16 permanents with the two extremes being 5 & 26.
Hope it helps.
May 5, 2015 11:27 p.m.
Lots of Primal Surge discussion and no mention of Animar, Soul of Elements, the best Primal Surge general?
Animar is actually a deck you want to run almost only permanents in, so pulling out the last few permanents to make room for Primal Surge is an easy cut.
I cut it from my Animar list because having a card that says "lol I win" wasn't particularily fun.
That said, no it is not worth cutting all those valuable spells for Primal Surge in most decks.
May 6, 2015 7:04 p.m.
I made my Roon deck with Primal Surge as one possible wincon. I don't rely on it all the time, but it is so satisfying when you ARE able to pop it off and empty all your cards out onto the table and win.
May 6, 2015 7:11 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #16
All right, I think you guys convinced me otherwise. I'm going to go with the non Primal Surge variant actually. Then down the road try it, swapping out the nonpermanents for stuff like Craterhoof Behemoth and whatnot. Plus I feel like it's less of a dragon deck with other things thrown in there. Thanks, guys.
May 6, 2015 7:23 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #17
Seems you have your answer already, but I agree with your conclusion. I am not a fan of Primal Surge. It takes away the ability to ramp, tutor, and even some good draw. Those are my favorite things to do, so I would suggest against it.
May 7, 2015 6:19 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #18
Yeah, Didgeridooda, I changed up the deck a bit, and I like it a lot more without the Primal Surge shenanigans.
May 7, 2015 6:22 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #19
It is a fun, and strong play when it works. Just not consistent, or protected enough.
Then you don't get Tooth and Nail Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling, Genesis Wave, and all the good stuff you mentioned.
May 7, 2015 6:31 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #20
I'm really just playing more ramp like Skyshroud Claim and Nature's Lore as I don't have those cards on me anymore. I added in Crux of Fate and Decree of Pain (traded my Damnation recently), and Demonic Tutor. Then Momentous Fall because I love that card, and it's just good. I'm considering Living Death, but that might be a bit win more.
Do you think Doubling Season would be worth playing with 6 planeswalkers in the deck and a few dragon token producers like Dragon Broodmother, Broodmate Dragon, and Utvara Hellkite?
May 7, 2015 6:37 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #21
All that stuff is good. Chord is only a couple bucks right now, I wonder what it will be at it's rotation. It is crazy to me that it is at that price.
I don't think you get enough value out of doubling season to justify adding it to the deck. Though you could add some things like Gyre Sage, or some of the other stuff, and get the value added up a little higher. I would prob just leave it out.
brokendwarf says... #2
As fun as Primal Surge is, use Genesis Wave instead (if you aren't). You might encounter that instance where you cast surge, and the first card you hit is nonland. Surge also exiles whereas wave just sends to the graveyard, which you can get back.
May 5, 2015 7:23 p.m.