OVERplayed cards?

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on Oct. 1, 2020, 9:38 p.m. by Omniscience_is_life

Good [greeting based on time zone that you're in], internet!

The question I have today is--What Cards Are Overplayed in EDH? You don't have to dislike the card, but maybe you think people put it a little higher than it deserves to be. I myself believe Fragmentize is overplayed, as it can't hit a Conjurer's Closet or anything of the sort, nor can you play it reactively, something I think is quite important in the format.

Anyways, let me know what you think!

goodair says... #2

I have never seen fragmentize being played lol!

October 1, 2020 9:41 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #3

October 1, 2020 10:02 p.m.

goodair fair enough

RNR_Gaming, care to elaborate? I agree with you entirely, but I want to hear your opinion

DeinoStinkus yeah I don't run Cancel variants in general. I agree completely

October 1, 2020 10:25 p.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #5

Cyclonic Rift

Fight me.

Seriously though, rarely is there not a time that it may as well read "You Win the Game" because everyone just scoops. There are cheaper, less oppressive alternatives not many of them instant, but still.

October 1, 2020 10:27 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #6

It doesnt belong in every deck. There are better options for rocks and its static is only relevant for things like Sen Triplets or theft effects if you wanna be able to play the ability. It's too expensive to be a budget include and too low impact to be considered anything other than a crutch for poor manabase building

October 1, 2020 10:41 p.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #7

I love c Rift =)

October 1, 2020 10:42 p.m.

VampDemigod says... #8

Cultivate, mostly in mono-green. Yes, it basically puts two lands into play when you haven’t played a land drop and have no cards in your hand, but Kodama's Reach is almost always better. Yes, there’s a slight chance you end up not having 1 extra open mana, but let’s be honest, how many times have you played cultivate on turn 4 instead of turn 3, and wouldn’t have had a land-drop for the turn if you hadn’t cast cultivate? Moreover, did you really need that one open mana? Reach is honestly probably better than cultivate in 90% of decks. Basically, I’d only Cultivate over it if I had 5+ one mana cards that I’d actually be fine with casting on turn 4. And THEN I’d still probably consider not playing it.

October 1, 2020 11:05 p.m.

VampDemigod says... #9

For the record, I’d also play cultivate in a budget deck.

October 1, 2020 11:06 p.m.

RNR_Gaming: Chromatic Lantern is easily one of the best 3 mana rocks and i'd say its almost an auto include in anything with 3+ colors. its not a "crutch for poor mana base building", but quite the opposite. its just part of good mana base building imo. the static ability is relevant in any deck with 3+ colors.

October 1, 2020 11:28 p.m.

VampDemigod says... #12

Aaa wrong card!!! Crap! I need to go find the right one. Lol dum me.

October 1, 2020 11:34 p.m.

VampDemigod says... #13

Can’t find it online rn. Dang it. Ignore me, at least until I can actually find this card. Probably going to have to look thru my collection.

October 1, 2020 11:36 p.m.

VampDemigod if you know the rules text and stuff like mana cost and color then you can look it up on the gatherer.

October 1, 2020 11:40 p.m.

VampDemigod says... #15

DragonSliver9001 TBH, I’m honestly starting to doubt that this card exists. I remember buying a few copies of whatever card this may or may not be, after hearing about it on a budget EDH podcast. Haven’t found the card yet, and I haven’t found it yet on the internet. Slight chance I’m misremembering the text of Nissa’s Pilgrimage?

October 1, 2020 11:47 p.m.

VampDemigod if you misremembered Nissa's Pilgrimage and thought it could grab any basics and not just forests then that makes a bit more sense.

October 1, 2020 11:52 p.m.

Sol Ring.

Come at me.

October 2, 2020 1:41 a.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #18

@dragonsilver9001 - genuine question not meant to be condescending. Do you play in any prize supported edh tournments? Also, are you limited to a restrictive budget?

October 2, 2020 1:53 a.m.

But seriously:

1) I am not saying that sol ring is a bad card, or that it does not belong in many-to-most decks. I AM saying that it is played in too many decks where it does not belong.

2) It's a crutch; people start their deck-building with X lands and a sol ring, rather than actually look at what the deck needs and what kinds of ramp might be better for the deck.

3) Especially in mono-color decks, sol ring gets slotted in, even when the deck doesn't require fast mana, and DOES require a specific color of mana. I've had this argument many times about my Toshiro Umezawa deck, which requires specifically black mana to maximize it's multiple spells per turn - extra colorless is frequently useless. Even the argument about getting to cast Toshiro himself a turn earlier falls flat, since Toshiro doesn't do much in the early game, and having him in play on turn two isn't a significant advantage unless I'm being threatened by a lot of aggro weenies - which Toshiro already preys on. The same logic applies to a lot of mono-blue control builds I've seen - the sol ring isn't actually enabling them to cast things faster, and since they're reactive decks to begin with, fast mana doesn't help until your opponents also have the mana to deploy threats you need to interact with.

The questions you should ask yourself before playing sol ring are: Does my deck require a lot of generic mana in the mid-late game, OR does my deck require me to cast my general quickly using an extra colorless mana or two, OR does my deck rely on fast acceleration to overpower opponents faster than they can set up? Unless the answer to one of the three is YES, then don't play sol ring.

TLDR: Want to run Sol Ring in your mono-green stompy deck? Go right ahead. How about in your mono-red Krenko goblins deck? Excellent choice. What if you wanted to build an intricate artifact combo deck? Seems great. But if you're thinking about slotting it into your Baral, Chief of Compliance control build? Maybe think again.

October 2, 2020 2:01 a.m.

RNR_Gaming says... #20

I actually feel the place that sol Ring doesnt fit the most are in color intensive commanders like Animar, Soul of Elements and Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord not that it wouldn't be good to cast other spells in the deck but because it fails to set up your commander early :)

October 2, 2020 2:07 a.m.

enpc says... #21

PhotogenicParasympathetic: The benefit of Sol Ring in a Baral, Chief of Compliance deck would be that it then helps cast your other mana rocks like Arcane Signet while leaving blue mana open for counterspells. I totally agree that it's less good, but I don't think it's bad.

RNR_Gaming: I have seen a few Saffi Eriksdotter lists that don't run Sol Ring becuase it doesn't accelerate her into play. But I would disagree with the logic, because Sol Ring helps to ramp into other parts of the combo as you've pointed out. I know a lot of Animar lists would take a mana elf over it though, since it doesn't trigger Animar, which I think is a legitimate call.

I would argue that the general rule is that Sol Ring fits into your deck and that the exception is that you shouldn't run it. But even the decks that do run it when it's not "needed" will see some value from.

October 2, 2020 2:25 a.m.

MagicMarc says... #22

It's pretty historically proven that ramp, especially cheap and efficient ramp is a plus in any deck. It just makes everything faster and cheaper allowing you to make multiple plays, activations or whatever in a turn sooner than you could without something like Sol Ring or even Chromatic Lantern.

It's hard to call a staple overplayed. Its been reprinted like a million times and is still a 2-3 dollar card for good reasons.

It's hard to call a card overplayed that is banned or restricted in certain formats because of how much acceleration it provides. The only thing better than a turn 1 Sol Ring is turn 1 Dark Ritual into Hypnotic Specter. Just kidding, that is from a long time ago for Magic.

Sure, there are certain archetypes that may not benefit from the card, but like someone else said in this thread, those are probably an exception and certainly not the norm.

October 2, 2020 3:11 a.m.

owenger says... #23

VampDemigod are you talking about Migration Path?

October 2, 2020 5:21 a.m.

King_marchesa says... #24

I think that Sheoldred, Whispering One although not played a tone is never worth the value because it gets immediately picked off by removal. The best it’s ever done for me is have one person sacrifice a creature.

October 2, 2020 8:13 a.m.

Massacar says... #25

Temple of the False God

One of the worst lands you can run in most decks, but it's widely used in EDH

October 2, 2020 9:39 a.m.

VampDemigod says... #26

Tangent: Great underrated card: Orcish Lumberjack. I’ve heard it referred to as lotus orc. Five mana on turn 2....I mean come on, this should be in every Gruul deck.

October 2, 2020 9:39 a.m.

Massacar says... #27

VampDemigod It's good in Windgrace style lands decks

October 2, 2020 9:40 a.m.

VampDemigod says... #28

And owenger that isn’t it for sure, I made the purchase about a year and a half ago. Thank you so much for trying to help.

I’ve decided at this point that I was just misremembering Nissa’s Pilgrimage.

October 2, 2020 9:41 a.m.

VampDemigod says... #29

Massacar Please notice that I said it was underrated.

October 2, 2020 9:42 a.m.

Massacar says... #30

VampDemigod I was just trying to support your point is all. I was only familiar with the card because of a Windgrace deck I planned out.

October 2, 2020 9:43 a.m.

TriusMalarky says... #31

Overplayed cards? Tapped lands(It'd cost you $20-30 to have a fully untapped manabase for any deck. Trust me, I'm broke and I've done it).

3+ mana ramp spells. Cultivate? Gross. Also, 2-mana mana dorks when you don't have all the relevant 1-mana dorks(barring Birds and Hierarch cos they're pricey).

Spells that don't do anything when played... Akroma's Memorial, and a hundred other things that are straight up useless. And for some reason they're all stupidly expensive. Just like, I will run my $3 five-mana 'I win the game' over your random high cmc card that does barely anything and costs my paycheck.

Probably Lithoform Engine. It's a garbage spell in most decks. But, in the decks that actually want it, is real gud.

October 2, 2020 10:43 a.m.

Reznorboy says... #32

For my playgroup it's Reclamation Sage. They literally. never. ever. use the body for anything other than attacks and blocks. Please, I beg of these people, run Nature's Claim instead.

If you run cards like Ephemerate to blink Rec Sage more than once, then playing it is ok. (White)

If you run Meren Clan of Nel Toth and sac outlets, or any kind of repeatable reanimation, then it's fine. (Black)

If you run mass bounce like Evacuation, then it's fine. (Blue)

Otherwise, no.

October 2, 2020 11:09 a.m.

Sensei's Divining Top

I think most of the “too often used” cards, in a broad sense, will end up being artifacts.

October 2, 2020 11:44 a.m.

StopShot says... #34

I’m shook. Fragmentize is overplayed? I’m the only one I know who seriously uses Fragmentize in my play circles. Fragmentize I would agreed if it wasn’t for the fact that cheap mono-white artifact-enchantment removal is so limited. If I was playing Green I would agree that Fragmentize is too niche, but if you’re playing semi-competitively without green then your best cheap answers are Disenchant, Seal of Cleansing, Revoke Existence and Fragmentize. That’s an efficient removal spell every 1 in 25 cards. Only if Wizards printed two more functional copies of Disenchant would I then start considering to axe my Fragmentize. Good removal should be cheaper than the threats you’re trying to remove with it and I’m not going to be running any Forsake the Worldly just to remove a 1-mana graveyard-hate card. Not hitting a Conjurer's Closet sucks, but there are many other cards I’d rather remove first before the Closet and all of those more pressing cards happen to be CMC four or less.

October 2, 2020 11:51 a.m.

Vedalken Orrery. Card is pointless for most decks and artificially price hiked because it is jlk's pet card.

October 2, 2020 12:01 p.m.

DeinoStinkus you spelled green wrong lol.

October 2, 2020 12:14 p.m.

(cough cough) Mountain

October 2, 2020 12:17 p.m.

VampDemigod says... #40

Wastes. It costs more than a lot of random lands that are colorless and generate colorless. Yes, I can see justifying a copy or two if you have a Skittering Surveyor-type card. But in general, don’t run it in colorless decks.

October 2, 2020 1:33 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #41

Rituals are overplayed. Unless you are using the mana to win the same turn, playing a mana rock is almost always better than a ritual.

October 3, 2020 11:09 p.m.

VampDemigod says... #42

Fair.

October 3, 2020 11:12 p.m.

TriusMalarky says... #43

Gidgetimer or power out your value-centric commander. t2 Korvold is pretty good IMO.

October 4, 2020 2 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #44

I disagree that it is enough better than turn 3 to justify a ritual. Rituals serve the same use as Lotus Petal. They accelerate a play by 1 turn but provide card disadvantage. If you aren't playing competitively or are not using the mana to win the same turn it just doesn't make sense IMO. They have uses, but are over played.

October 4, 2020 2:56 p.m.

TriusMalarky says... #45

Well, card advantage Commanders nullify the 'card disadvantage' point. Korvold draws so many cards, for example, that playing him turn two draws you at least one or two extra cards, meaning bare minimum you redraw the card you spent.

But for anyone that doesn't draw you cards or win you the game, yeah rituals are pretty lame.

October 4, 2020 3:49 p.m.

wereotter says... #46

Harmonize especially in decks that have blue. Seriously, would anyone consider putting Concentrate into their decks? Then why it's color shift? And on that note Mulldrifter too since for a lot of decks it's basically Divination but worse since blue can recur spells, but not creatures.

October 7, 2020 2:29 p.m.

Optimator says... #47

What's wrong with Concentrate?

October 7, 2020 3:44 p.m.

MagicalHacker says... #48

The three I always think of are Temple of the False God, Mind Stone, and Chromatic Lantern.

October 20, 2020 5:54 p.m.

TriusMalarky says... #49

MagicalHacker I'd run Mind Stone in any mono-color EDH deck as part of the initial pile of rocks(not in green of course). But in multicolor the cantrip clause really isn't worth it.

Optimator I don't know what other people have said, but Concentrate is just slow in EDH. There are better cards. Not bad, but there are a lot of things that I'd run over it.

October 21, 2020 9:56 a.m.

MagicalHacker says... #50

TriusMalarky the reason I'm not a fan of it is outlined in this video I made where I introduce the idea of why 2-CMC Rocks are counterintuitively worse for multiplayer Commander than other, less-played options.

October 21, 2020 11:10 p.m.

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