One Day until Throne of Eldraine Spoilers Start, but I've still what to decide for some things...
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 3, 2019, 2 p.m. by BMHKain
Arcane Signet … Better than Commander's Sphere .
Mana Drain … better than Force of Will in spite of the latter reaching the $100+ Mark.
Demonic Tutor … The Mono- Tutor w/ very few competition...
One day away from Spoiler Revealing for a set I'm entirely HYPED for, I'm about to watch a vid on how to get to Mythic on MTG ARENA, in addition to finding some new supplies for my stuff.
That said, I do have one question worth asking; several as a matter of fact.
For starters, let's begin w/ Mana Drain : As a Counterspell at 2 CMC, I actually might want to find a replacement for this; one said there are many great replacements for this card; but for this, I'm limiting my options in the following:
- Mono- Only.
- Neither Counterspell , nor Negate are options here; they really are givens.
- CMC=2< only (Unless you show me a CMC=3 Danger Zone-Styled Counterspell that's just incredible regardless.)
- costs are normally not gong to do much. Refrain from finding one please.
Next: Arcane Signet /Any Signet Really.
After the Talismans have a full 10 Set, I'm actually wondering if the Ravnican Signets are worth playing anymore. One stated the Talismans are all better than Whatever Rock Ravnica can provide. Is it truly worth cutting all those Signets? & I know Arcane Signet will be broken here, but what decks does/does not need The 11th Signet ?
Finally, Demonic Tutor . I know this one's not exactly necessary in all related decks, but what decks truly need it? Unless you can find a good replacement in Mono-, I'd like a good reason not to run it, please.
EχTRA: Actually, THIS, is the last thing I want to talk about. Apparently Taplands seem to have some guff here; Bounce Lands force a land back into your hand.
Man Lands are actually more underwhelming than you'd think, & Enemy Colored lands of this type are worse than Allied Colored ones. (What...?)
Scry Lands seem alright, given you at least look at the top of your library, & opt to either put it on the top, or bottom of your library.
Whatever other Tap Lands out there that deserves a place; I can only find the Scry Lands so far. Lifegain Lands' effects are just marginal, but can you think of any that doesn't require Basic Land Type dependence & is worth tapping.
With Throne of Eldraine nearly a Month away, & less than a Day away for Spoiling, I'll let you guys decide amongst yourselves; I now have a weird feeling that I don't want Tap Lands unless they can do something great. In addition, I want to find a CMC=3< Mono- Counterspell I would never think of being amazing, wonder if the 10 Signets of Ravnica are still keeping alongside the Talismans, & if it's even possible to find a good Tutor like Demonic Tutor , but wonder what decks truly need it.
That said, I'm going now. I have to find a bunch of things about MTG ARENA on Commandcast, & some recent stuff Prof. Lewis reviewed recently...
See ya. :)
GhostChieftain says... #3
Force of will is effectively a 0 mana counterspell. Mana drain is certainly good, but I don't see one as being 100% better overall because each has situations that it is better than the other. Sure ramping off a counterspell is great, but a free counterspell is just as good or better imo.
If I were to suggest counterspells that haven't been suggested, Flusterstorm and Swan Song are exceedingly good vs many decks and having the 1 mana counter makes you stand a better chance at winning counterspell wars over important spells. Also as stated above, delay is an all star.
Arcane signet sure is better than commander's sphere and the other ravnican signets, but I don't see the printings of that and the new talismans making the ravnican signets ever irrelevant. I think many decks will run both sets to make it more consistent.
September 3, 2019 2:34 p.m.
OK. Already decided on the Mana Drain replacement. Also, Damn. Arcane Signet isn't going to be like the Ravnican Signets or the Talismans? Talk about a $20 waste somewhat. Though running 10 + 10 + 1? I'm... Unsure if this is a true possibility while keeping such a deck completely viable. Alright. Unless anyone has any objections for otherwise, Arcane Signet will stay for now. That said, I still wonder what Lands w/ 50% of a full cycle that enter play untapped, and/or Tapped w/ a good ability to back them up. I'm afraid this may be a lost cause for Demonic Tutor alts. :( That said, thanks for the help so far, guys! I was initially solemnly expecting negative criticism though... :/
September 3, 2019 5:29 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #5
I wasn't meaning the full sets lol, I should've phrased that differently. I meant some 2 and 3 color decks will likely use all relevant ones and 4 color will probably mix and match to get exactly what they need. 5 color will probably just use 1 set or the other depending on how painful their landbase is.
September 3, 2019 5:37 p.m.
As Throne of Eldraine Spoilers are flowing like a Fairy Tale Epic, I'll try to explain my reasons for things not mentioned for Allied Colors here yet. Before I do, Delay looks great, but how does Suspend work, & how good is it against opponents? I also suppose all ten Ravnica Signets & Talismans are better than Arcane Signet ? I'm intrigued about this; it seems like:
Is this where the rankings stand for Overall Power for these Mana Rocks? Just checking to be sure.
Finally, I still am guessing there's no substitute for Demonic Tutor unless anyone can say different. For now, though, It's a lost cause. Anyways, the list:
Arctic Flats Snow Taplands
Elfhame Palace / Tranquil Expanse Generic Tap Duals
Gavony Township Innistrad Location Duals
Grasslands Tap Fetches
Horizon Canopy Future-Sighted/Horizon Duals (Missing 4 other allied cards.)
Riftstone Portal Graveyard Duals (Or something...)
Saltcrusted Steppe Storage Duals
Sungrass Prairie The Crappy Fetchlands
Tranquil Garden / Vec Townships Slow Tap Lands
Veldt Duals Utilizing Depletion Counters
Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree Ravnica Location Duals
Anything else as Dual Lands you may already be familiar w/. I just wanted to mention the worst Allied-Only, Nearly awful Allied-Only, & nothing else. Since I'm reduced to a situation where nearly all my cards in my Landbase need to not ETB Tapped, I want your opinions on the worst of the worst. & I'd like your opinions for the ones that didn't get noted that ETB Tapped, but is still good; which bumps off, for instance:
Blossoming Sands / Graypelt Refuge Lifegain Lands
Stirring Wildwood Man Lands
Temple of Plenty Scry Lands
Selesnya Guildgate Guild Lands
If I'm missing out on anything, either:
A: It's a more common Two Color Land than these types.
B: So many use them, there is no point in mentioning them here.
C: Other...
Sorry for the inconvenience for all these kinds of lands. I just want to see as too which ones are worth adding... Thanks in advance.
September 4, 2019 11:04 a.m.
NEVER BUMP WITH A GINGERFOLK.
I still have some questions that need answering.
1: How good is Delay ? If it Suspends 3 a target, After the last counter, what is the result?
2: What would be the current standing of the following?:
Those are my standings. Any objections, & why?
3: I dun suppose there is an Alt. For Demonic Tutor ? Just a thought...
- I added in a whole list of Allied Colored stuff to see if anyone gets my point. There's so much crap, even stuff ETB tapped is a bad idea. Any ideas for Lands that are good here on a deck entering play untapped? I really would like to know.
ETRA: Already loving Oko, Thief of Crowns & Garruk, Cursed Huntsman ! I wonder how good they can do in Superfriends; & I friggen love Oko himself. Any ideas for any of this? I wonder if anyone posts here anymore...
September 5, 2019 4:11 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #9
Delay is very good. After the last counter is removed the spell gets cast, but if you do it right they have no legal target after your have more time to take it out and the spell fizzles, you have something to make their spell not work as well as they intended, or at the very worst you have another counterspell.
Arcane Signet is best, but the other two could both reasonably be argued as third best depending on the deck. More often than not I would personally say talismans are third best. Second best is Fellwar Stone .
There are substitutes for demonic tutor if you are okay with either putting the card on top of your deck (ex. Vampiric Tutor ), or are okay with it being a specific card type you have to search for and then revealing it (ex. Eladamri's Call )
As far as the lands go, if you have the scratch for it get a few fetchlands and the proper shocklands. Get painlands. Exotic Orchard , Forbidden Orchard , and Reflecting Pool help a whole lot. Lastly Tarnished Citadel even though it hurts a lot when you need colored mana, it is really good in a 3+color deck. You have 40 life to use as a resource
September 5, 2019 5:02 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #10
What I am saying as far as the lands is, there is no need to go out and get ones on your list before getting the ones I mentioned and probably the battlebond lands. If you have these others, then run whatever floats your boat. Slow tap, gates, and snow taplands are the worst ones imo and after that it is basically personal preference out of what you already have with the untapped lands being best
September 5, 2019 5:32 p.m.
@GhostChieftain: Well, I think I might know about how to revise the whole thing, negating Tranquil Garden & co., Any Damn Gate Subtype Land. , & 's only chance for Duals that Phailed.
Shocks & Pain Lands shouldn't be a problem. Exotic Orchard , Forbidden Orchard , Reflecting Pool , Mana Confluence (Because City of Brass is considered strictly worse in my opinion. It was alright, but just tapping for no mana? Prepare to get ping'd.), but Tarnished Citadel ? Hmmm... That's one hell of a sell. As for Taplands, Thanks. I think I've already decided; just don't expect me bouncing my own land back...
DAYUM, SON. (Sorry; I couldn't help myself. It was too easy.) Delay is THAT good? Why do I even have stuff in w/ Mana Drain ?! There was already a price fluctuation, so... Why not?
Might as well make a list of Tutors for that in terms of individual color; or is there already a guide for this? (Yes.) Again, this is color restrictive...
Finally, Talismans, Signets,
Fellwar Stone
,
Arcane Signet
... That's a lot of work for me to think of. Now I have to rank 4 of the best non-
Sol Ring
related Rocks now... XP
Anyways, thanks. I'll have to repair my Landbase(s) later. I've got other crap to settle...
September 5, 2019 7 p.m.
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SynergyBuild says... #2
Delay is better than Mana Drain in cEDH, often. It is arguable either way, and a deck like Urza or Teferi that uses artifacts and lots of colorless mana may want the Drain, but for many decks, Delay is a better control card, stopping opponents from Eternal Witness ing their Food Chain back to win again.
September 3, 2019 2:04 p.m.