Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 15, 2014, 5:39 p.m. by abenz419
What would be the best way to build an EDH deck using Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind as my commander? I have a couple of ideas but I'm not sure which would be best or if maybe there is another strategy I should employ. One would be to use a control/tempo build to stop my opponents important plays with lots of draw spells to take advantage of Niv-Mizzet's ability. Another option I have thought of is to use things that have abilities like Bident of Thassa and run a bunch of cheaper evasive creatures to get damage through so I can draw cards and deal more damage with Niv-mizzet's ability. I'm not really sure which would be the better option or if there may be other options I haven't thought of yet, what do you guys think?
Epochalyptik says... #3
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is a common combo general. Use cards like Curiosity to go infinite with the ping ability.
UR also tends to be pretty control-heavy. You don't have a ton of other options, and control pairs well with combo.
April 15, 2014 5:45 p.m.
adventfaith says... #4
I like to use Consecrated Sphinx and get a bunch of draw power going and ping with him, and even use something like Jace's Erasure
April 15, 2014 5:54 p.m.
OK, so are there other cards similar to Curiosity
that are typical combo cards with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
?
April 15, 2014 6:28 p.m.
Tandem Lookout is that last blue/red Curiosity effect I know of. Helm of the Ghastlord works but is outside Niv's colors.
April 15, 2014 6:43 p.m.
Hmmmm... I tried to do a gatherer search and I'm coming up with nothing, maybe I'm just not searching it properly, but I was wondering what kind of tutors might be available to U/R to help me find any of those enchantments for the combo?
April 15, 2014 7:01 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #9
Neither red nor blue really tutor enchantments; that's more white's shtick. Probably all you're going to be able to get is Gamble type tutors and lots of card draw.
April 15, 2014 7:04 p.m.
miracleHat says... #10
I have found with niv that you don't need tutors. You are drawing so many cards per turn and if you run Mindmoil effects, you can sift through your library and get what you need asap.
April 15, 2014 7:37 p.m.
brycecream says... #11
It takes a while to get going, but since you're probably going to be drawing an extra card each turn, Archmage Ascension is a nice little permatutor
April 15, 2014 7:48 p.m.
@GoldGhost012 yeah I know tutoring for enchantments is more of a white thing, but I figured it couldn't hurt to look and ask. That kind of sucks though, because personally I think I would want to avoid things like Gamble
, if the idea is to get one of those infinite combo pieces then it would be a huge waste if that's what got discarded.
@Droxium The idea is to have tons of draw power so I can see your point, I just thought having things that could directly pull what I wanted out would help as well. Then I could use that draw power to search for the tutors or the enchantments themselves making it easier to combo out.
@brycecream I like your suggestion. In a deck build around drawing cards I don't think getting to six counters would be that hard. It also triggers at the beginning of EACH end step, so drawing cards on my opponents turn will add a counter as well. I also like that if Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind gets shuffled into my library I can immediately search for him with this out and active.
April 15, 2014 8:02 p.m.
miracleHat says... #13
For tutors, i would just run Ethereal Usher and Mystical Tutor . Ethereal Usher tutors for niv and Consecrated Sphinx , both of which allow you to win easier. Mystical Tutor , tutors normally for over a third of your deck.
April 15, 2014 8:18 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #14
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker , Splinter Twin , Deceiver Exarch , Pestermite , Hinder , Spell Crumple , Desertion , Wurmcoil Engine
April 15, 2014 8:45 p.m.
@Droxium I was originally looking for enchantment tutors for the infinite combo that Ophidian Eye and Curiosity create with Niv-Mizzet. Mystical Tutor will most definitely have to be included because as you mentioned in a deck that uses a lot of instants and sorcery cards it'll basically get most of the cards in the deck. Ethereal Usher is interesting, if I ever come across a Consecrated Sphinx that I'm able to get I think I woulld have to give it some good consideration as a way to increase my chances of finding the sphinx. Right now being in the planning and idea gathering phase of this build I'm not entirely sure how many other things i'll include that has a CMC of 6 though, so I don't know how entirely useful it would be yet. I like it's ability but the deck isn't going to run a ton of creatures and I'll be including Thassa, God of the Sea . I know having multiple things that can accomplish the same task is good but I don't think making creatures unblockable is something the deck has to have. It's definitely something to consider though.
April 15, 2014 9:33 p.m.
miracleHat says... #16
Ethereal Usher will never be cast as a creature. I have found that Consecrated Sphinx is the second best creature (after niv) for the insane amount of draw that goes on. Also, Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind gets a lot of hate, for the stupidity that comes along with him. People will Hinder , Spell Crumple , Spin into Myth niv as quickly as possible. Being able to find niv without sifting through your entire deck conserves time and resources. Also, Bident of Thassa is terrible in a niv deck. You aren't dealing combat damage, you are dealing niv damage.
April 16, 2014 midnight
When I was considering the Bident of Thassa and other similar things it was because I thought maybe one direction I could take the deck was to use small evasive creatures like Phantom Warrior or Thalakos Scout and others similar to sneak damage in which would draw me cards and in turn trigger Niv-Mizzet's ability to deal even more damage. Just drawing for my turn and hitting you with Phantom Warrior and Thalakos Scout while having the bident out is an easy 7 damage, and thats all before I even played a card that turn. Meaning I could do damage from spells in my hand too. You can see the damage adds up fast, but most of the cards I've come across that had a biden like effect are creatures and their ability usually triggers only when that specific creature deals damage instead of a global effect like the bident,
Now I realize the best win condition in a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind deck is to combo off with Curiosity , Ophidian Eye , or Tandem Lookout . That means the deck is better off having more control elements than I was originally planning on using, which isn't a problem. It's just a different direction than I was originally planning on going.
April 16, 2014 10:44 a.m.
Dat Intuition . Niv probably wouldn't mind some wheel effects.
April 16, 2014 7:34 p.m.
What are some good counterspells in EDH... I see things like Mana Leak being decent but with the amount of ramp in EDH, I see it being inconsistent as well. So, what are some good hard counters that I can include?
also I've started to build the deck list. It's not complete but it's at least a visual idea of where the deck is heading and what kind of things I'm looking for.
izzet is or izzet ain't Playtest
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 9 VIEWSApril 16, 2014 7:44 p.m.
Good counters: Arcane Denial , Memory Lapse , Delay , Remand , Swan Song
Hard counters: Counterflux , Hinder , Spell Crumple , Cryptic Command
April 16, 2014 8:24 p.m.
@Alizer313 thanks for the suggestions... a couple questions though. In other constructed formats I understand the tempo benefits of putting something on top of someone library, in EDH (where cards have lots of utility) does putting it on top till have the same advantages?
Another question I have is, what is a good number of counterspells to include in the deck? Obviously I want to have them available whenever I need them, but I also don't want a hand full of counterspells so that I can get through my library in order to reach my win conditions.
Also, do you have any other suggestions for my deck specifically? The whole point of the deck is having draw power and I feel like I'm not including some obvious cards in that regard. Also, I've included some things that clear the board for emergencies like Nevinyrral's Disk , Rough/Tumble , and Cyclonic Rift . Are there any others I should include?
April 16, 2014 8:49 p.m.
((I also forgot to mention that Rewind , Pact of Negation , and Venser, Shaper Savant are good counter-cards))
abenz419: In my experience, putting something on top of someone's library has proven to be useful. In the case of cards like Memory Lapse , it can buy you a turn, set your opponent back a turn, or you could use some trick to remove it completely. If we're talking about cards like Mystical Tutor , you'll have no trouble ensuring that you draw the card you want using an effect such as Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind 's tap effect.
I love control. I aim to have at least seven to twelve counter-effects in each of my blue decks, and it works pretty well for me. With Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind , you should regularly have a counterspell in hand when you need it.
Other suggestions I could offer you would be some classic wheel effects. Reforge the Soul , Winds of Change , Wheel of Fortune , Jace's Archivist , Memory Jar , Whirlpool Warrior , and Molten Psyche . I also find that Frantic Search , Scroll Rack 0, and Consecrated Sphinx 0 can be really good inclusions. You have a good start on fieldwipes, but I think that Blasphemous Act could also be worthy of a slot (maybe). Shattering Spree or Vandalblast could be useful for artifact removal.
A sidenote. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind can work pretty well with a wizard-sub-tribal, thus allowing the full effectiveness of cards like Riptide Laboratory and Cavern of Souls .
((Cards marked with an 0 are a bit on the pricy side.))
April 16, 2014 9:34 p.m.
@Alizer313 I just want to say thanks, your advise has been very helpful and informative. I appreciate that you explain yourself a little instead of just throwing out card names.
I can't believe I didn't think of Rewind myself as that should be an obvious inclusion. As far as things like Memory Lapse , I just wasn't sure how much those small tempo plays had an effect on this format since I'm newer to EDH. Plus you make a good point about if I can do something about it once it gets put on top, and that reminded me I'm including Jace, Memory Adept who's +1 actually works great in situations like that giving me card advantage and forcing them to use more resources (assuming they have them) to get it out of the graveyard instead of drawing it.
I'll look into more wheel effects as well. I wasn't completely sold on those originally but it was explained to me how they can easily help me cycle through my deck faster so I can find the cards that help me combo out for the win. I have a Memory Jar and a Vandalblast that I was going to include but forgot it when typing out the deck list so thanks for reminding me about those. Plus I've already included Frantic Search , a card that helps dig through the library for what is essentially free seemed like a no brainer and so does Consecrated Sphinx . It's just a matter of acquiring one.
Your semi-wizard tribal idea made me go and take a look at what I already was putting in the deck. Over half the creatures I'm already planning to include are wizards. So i'm going to definitely look into getting a Riptide Laboratory . It makes your suggestion of Venser, Shaper Savant that much better. Plus being able to protect creatures like Ertai, Wizard Adept , Temporal Adept , or Niv-mizzet in case of removal or a wipe is a great benefit too. Thanks again for all of the advise and I know you've already given a ton but if you think of anything else feel free to mention it. It can't hurt.
April 16, 2014 10:23 p.m.
@Alizer313 I almost forgot, there are some cards I was planning to include but i'm still a little on the fence about so I wanted to get your opinion of them in a build like this.
Treasure Trove , obviously for card draw but is it too expensive to really be usefull?? Well of Knowledge again for card draw, but in a deck like this, is it enough of an advantage to offset the fact it benefits my opponents as well? Nullify a hard creature or aura counter for 2 mana, very solid, but is it worth including because of decks like mine that run very few creatures/auras? Would I be better off with a different hard counter even if it cost more to cast? Omniscience this is more just for fun i guess, but there's nothing wrong with free counter spells right? Do I get more serious and ditch it, or can it be as useful as it is fun?
Blakkhand says... #2
Two options:
Curiosity combo
Stuff. A lot of design space here, almost anything works.
April 15, 2014 5:41 p.m.